You no doubt heard that the bodies of six Israeli hostages were discovered a couple of days ago in Gaza. They had been dead only a few hours. Juan Cole says that “Three of them had been designated as part of a hostage exchange with Hamas that the Hamas leadership had agreed to on August 3,” but Netanyahu had made other demands that soured the deal. “Many Israelis believe that if Netanyahu had accepted the hostage deal in early August, the six who were killed on Saturday would still be alive,” Juan Cole says. So yesterday there were massive demonstrations all over Israel, along with strikes and labor stoppages that continue into today. In brief, Israelis are massively pissed at Netanyahu.
Today Axios reports that “President Biden told reporters on Monday that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu isn’t doing enough to get a Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal.” From what I’ve been reading over the past several weeks Netanyahu really is a bigger holdup to a deal than Hamas. As I understand it, Netanyahu thinks his political fortunes depend on stoking conflicts with Hamas, not on making deals with them.
Axios continues,
The other side: A senior Israeli source said “it is puzzling that president Biden is pressing Prime Minister Netanyahu, who agreed to the U.S. proposal as early as May 31 and to the U.S. bridging proposal on August 16, and not Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, who continues to vehemently refuse any deal.”
I regret I’m not following this closely enough to know who is doing what. So back to Juan Cole:
One of the protesters, a woman, mocked Netanyahu’s attempt to blame Hamas. He had said, “Whoever wants a deal doesn’t kill hostages.” But the demonstrator said he was speaking of himself, not Hammas, and was speaking of his cabinet members who voted, she alleged, to sacrifice the hostages. She underscored that “it was possible to get them back home alive.” She added, “The Israeli government and its leader deliberately sacrificed the hostages, leading to their deaths.” She pointed out that the six hostages had been left there eleven months, and killed only a week ago. The hostage families said they want a deal “now!”
I don’t trust Hamas, either, but as I said what I have been reading over the past few days puts more blame for the failure on Netanyahu than Hamas. Lindsey Graham disagrees and has suggested that the U.S. start bombing oil refineries in Iran if the hostages are not released. Um, maybe not.
This morning Biden and Vice President Harris met with the national security team about Israel. WaPo, yesterday:
“You can’t keep negotiating this. This process has to be called at some point,” said the senior official, who said that the United States, Egypt and Qatar had been working on the final proposal before the six hostages were found dead in a tunnel beneath the southern Gaza city of Rafah. “Does it derail the deal? No. If anything, it should add additional urgency in this closing phase, which we were already in
As I’ve said before, I think Netanyahu is trying to drag out negotiations in hopes Trump wins another term. Now that that possibility is looking iffier, maybe he’ll cave. Or not.
I would like an analysis of the hostage bodies telling me who, likely, killed them. Bibi has already stated several times that killing Hamas takes precedence over saving hostages, so, like donnie's ear "wound", I would like proof. The IDF has a terrible record for telling the truth, so far, killing people with white flags, etc.
The entire situation seems to me to validate the saying that "an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind".
Sometimes reading about happenings with Israel, I have to double-check to make sure it is not a Russian Times article.
From what I have read they were executed by gunfire at close range, which doesn't sound as if they were collateral damage of an Israeli bombing.
I know there are reports of a lot of Israeli bombing of perfectly innocent groups, but, I am more concerned that IDF sprayed a room before entering, or something like that. Wasn't there an innocent person killed by police spraying several rooms before entering in the US?
Bibi has said he prefers killing Hamas to rescuing hostages. I tend to take fascists at their word.
“I am more concerned that IDF sprayed a room before entering, or something like that.” And this is how it starts. Just ignore what has been reported and assume those people you don’t like are guilty. Never mind that the kidnapper/terrorists have a history of being as ruthless as ruthless gets. Just keep making those assumptions, and before long you’ll feel entitled to do anything to those people because they’re all bad. In short, you aren’t helping. Bigotry got us into this mess; more bigotry won’t get us out of it.
"Just ignore what has been reported and assume those people you don’t like are guilty"
I agree though when it comes to the genocide taking place in Gaza I don't really consider what's reported as very reliable. Bibi and his IDF goons have killed close to 42,000 though there is very little effort to even report the deaths of Palestinians much less try to figure the circumstances of their death. The deaths of these hostages are most likely the Hama's terrorists responsibility though there was a deal on the table last week to have these people released, Bibi chose instead to send troops into the West Bank.
“I don’t really consider what’s reported as very reliable.” Probably not, but it’s more reliable than imagination.
I feel horrible for the families of those hostages but to be honest I feel worse the families of the dozens of Palestinians murdered every day by Bibi's IDF. When those people are killed our "news" media almost completely ignores it. At the families of the dead hostages get some recognition of their loss.
Old people repeat themselves and I will again. The IDF and its leaders deserve no good conduct medals nor do Hamas and its leaders.
Both the Israeli people and the Palestinians of the West Bank region appear to have any real control of their leadership. When that happens you become pawns to the minority that control the leadership. One should note, on both sides, control seems coming from monotheists of different religions. With the 20025 plan it seems we could end up with a similar control structure in our country. It is a real and rational thing to fear. Especially now as wars now tend to be fought by making civilians the targets. If not the direct targets, the indirect victims of taking out power stations and the like. Sure, it is a war crime to wage war that way, but right now Putin is scoffing at his war criminal status and to attend a meeting in a country that promised to abide by international law. The chances he will be arrested are reported as zero. That seems to make the war crimes charge near worthless and war crimes the new normal in warfare. Nothing about this situation appears good for the average citizen.
If I recall correctly, the Palestinians of the West Bank voted in Hamas as its leaders at one point in time. That was a serious mistake. When you sew the wind, you may reap the whirlwind.
Israel has seemed also to have lost control of its Democracy. BiBi seems to have wrested power away from the people and their protests are ignored. The mess of the war seems to be all that is holding him in power. Such factors make serious peace efforts highly improbable. When you let a hawk get that kind of power, you too may reap the whirlwind.
The only good that comes out of this may be a good education for citizens of other democracies. That good only happens if people learn from bad examples. I wish I saw more examples of that being the case.
Sorta kinda. Originally the governing power was the Palestinian National Authority, headed by Yasser Arafat until he died in 2004. In 2007 Hamas received 44 percent of the vote in what would be the last election held in Gaza. Hamas somehow used that 44 percent vote to seize total control.
I've heard a lot of commentators say that Hamas has been able to remain in control because Bibi Natanyahu wants it that way. He and Hamas are allies in one thing — they both oppose a two-state solution. And the ongoing conflict has been great for Netanyahu's political career. I deep hoping that outrage for his lack of concern for the hostages will get him toppled at long last.
"Both the Israeli people and the Palestinians of the West Bank region appear to have any real control of their leadership."
I may correct your thesis statement to what it says in context –
""Both the Israeli people and the Palestinians of the West Bank region appear to have no real control of their leadership."
That I agree with wholeheartedly. It would be foolish for Harris to make an issue of it before she is sworn in but…
If Israel deserves our support as the "only democracy in the region", as the US likes to claim to explain our support of a brutal government (not all the citizens of Israel) I hope President Harris tells Israel they have to ACT like a democracy or they are putting in peril the only excuse we have for arming the government of Israel.
My personal opinion is that the US can not allow another genocide of Israelis to occur. The US wasn't in a position to do anything about the death camps until the end of WWII. Still, there's plenty of historical evidence that antisemitism in the State Department prevented refugees from Germany to escape the net Hitler cast.
Young people do not appreciate the shame of that bigotry. Some in Hamas would exterminate all Jews with or without gas chambers. Just give them the weapons. Bit not all citizens of Israel are culpable for the abuses of their government. If the US steps aside and lets the radicals have their way, it will be the second time in a century. Once was more than enough.
Again, my opinion only, I think the US should stand aside for a boycott of Israeli goods.A global boycott. Like any country, money turns the wheels. Hit the money people in the wallet, cause a recession for the average bloke…suddenly, the atrocities that outraged the world will become a priority for the voters and the wealthy king-makers who looked the other way with Bibi. The world toppled aparthaid in South Africa that way. This isn't nation-building by governments – it's people power – non-Muslims standing up against mass murder.
It may be too late for the people of Israel to act like a democracy. The people seem to have lost control of their leadership allowing zealots to rule. The Palestinians of the West Bank ceded control to Hamas long ago. Both leaderships are caught up in a cycle of hate and war without end. For this the common people get constant opportunities to be martyrs. That sure sound like a bad deal to me. I wonder what they think. Do they even think about peace or even cutting their losses? Do they even consider they are in this mess because they picked bad leadership?
My guess is no. In their situation they live very low on the scale of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Low and fighting for lower.
Hamas got control of the West Bank, but it's not clear to me how that happened. Anger and fear of Israeli settlers no doubt had a lot to do with that. But as we may be about to learn if Trump gets another term, once authoritarians seize control of a government all the principled opposition in the world won't dislodge them. IMO there will never be peace until there are separate Israeli and Palestinian states. The status quo is not sustainable.
T. Freidman made some good points today. e.g.
Freidman claims this sort of thinking goes against the BiBi doctrine.
The current situation appears both unsustainable and unstoppable. Unstoppable because BiBi needs the war to please the zealots and stay in power.
It was a bad sign when humanitarians became a target of the IDF.
Somewhere in the jungle of politics, grudges, hate, and rubble there may be a path to peace. If there is one the path is small and well hidden. Just keeping a lid on things will take much work and sacrifice.
Opinion | How Netanyahu Is Trying to Save Himself, Elect Trump and Defeat Harris – The New York Times (nytimes.com)