From Michael Lind:
The citizens of red states like Texas can enjoy lower state and local taxes in part because of the success of their elected representatives in Washington in redistributing income from the blue-state rich to red state social programs.
This is not new information, but it does irritate the bleep out of me. And then you’ve got California, which is not necessarily a “red state” but which has put itself into severe financial jeopardy because it refuses to tax itself enough to pay for its own government services.
This is a situation that the Founding Fathers didn’t envision, I don’t think. And as Lind points out, the “moocher” states also are stealing jobs from the “benefactor” states by offering business cheaper labor and lower environmental regulations. Oh, and tax cuts. The federal taxes paid by union workers in the north are helping to ship union jobs to moocher “right to work” states. So, the moocher states are mooching wealth out of the whole country in more ways than one.
I have a fantasy solution that will never happen: Attach some strings to federal tax dollars given to states. Require states to levy some minimal rate of taxes on income and investments before they can receive federal tax money. This would not affect federal benefits going directly to citizens, and I would also not include Medicaid in this. Genuinely poor states would not have to match the amount of revenue collected with that of wealthier states, but wealthier states would not be able to let its citizens skate while leeching money from everyone else.
When conservatives scream bloody murder, show them the Laffer curve. Tell them that according to their own theories, cutting taxes grows tax revenue. So, why do they continue to need federal subsidies that other states are not getting? If they are running short of funds, they can just cut taxes more!
The downside of this is that a lot of citizens of moocher states would genuinely suffer, for a while. But maybe they’d finally get off their butts and get to a voting booth and throw the bums out. Call it tough love.
The Lind article is pretty good. A little more:
Don’t be fooled by talk of the “libertarian†West. Red state America is really just the former Confederacy, including Texas, with some over-represented, low-population Mountain and Plains states thrown in. The social ideal of the neo-Confederate right can be summed up as follows: voters who don’t work and workers who don’t vote.
Ever since the federal government deprived them of their slaves, the Southern elite has sought to create the functional equivalent of slavery, by creating a low-wage work force stripped of bargaining power and voting rights. Until the civil rights revolution, the neo-Confederates did this on the economic side by creating unfree labor systems like tenant farming and the convict-lease system, as well as “right-to-work†laws to stifle unionization in their region. Keeping welfare benefits low, and controlled by local elites, forces Southern workers to accept jobs on the terms offered by Southern employers. On the political side, Dixie’s politicians used poll taxes and residency requirements to strip poor blacks and poor whites of the right to vote.
Some of Lind’s carping at “Starbucksy neighborhoods with subsidized mass transit for credentialed hipsters in brick-walled lofts” is unjustified, but otherwise he makes some good points.
Good commentary, Maha. It was just what I needed after foolishly watching “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.” Why is a movie so old still so relevant? It is frustrating because, unfortunately, we don’t get the happy ending in real life.
This has always ticked me off, especially since I live in one of the alleged “high tax states” where we try to offer good services to our citizens. And for that we get threats from large employers that they will pack up and leave to regions south. They then extract concessions from the unions to keep them in-state. Harley-Davidson has done this and several other large union shops. Several have moved out.
Good post. Clearly, there are “moocher states” on the Right (TN), left (CA), and center (NH). States really abuse the 10th amendment–which was supposed to be extremely limited– these days.
Lind finishes his article with this:
“Both the blue economic model and the red economic model are parasitic, not productive. Neither provides a model for a decent American future.”
Sorry, Mr. Lind, but I call, “BS!” on that!!!
I love most of the rest of the article – except that paragraph and the one that precedes it. They sound like the conclusions of one of those very rare “moment of sobriety and truth” columns that somehow or other pop-up from the likes of a Brooks, Douthat, Friedman, or even Will.
And his 2nd to last paragraph proves why the RED state model doesn’t work, and takes the Blue one with it. Blue states set up environmental and workplace regulations, and then the Red ones suck up the businesses when they decide they’d rather not follow them, and move down South for more money for their “shareholders” – thus getting bigger salaries and bonuses for the executives who made that decision.
The problem is that, over the last 30+ years, rather than have Federal solutions for the whole country, too often the issues are allowed to be handled state by state – just like Conservatives want. If they couldn’t suck in the companies from the North with promises of big tax breaks for moving there, lower environmental standards, and then offering their own cheaper and more desperate labor force, the Conservatives/Republicans/Neo-Libertarians, and then crowing about how they’re bringing in jobs, they would never get re-elected – if they could even get elected in the first place. That, ladies and gentlemen, is part of the the entire “State’s Rights” argument – along with controlling their women and minorities.
The system as a whole doesn’t work not because it can’t, but that it’s not whole.
CA, NY, MA set up tougher environmental standards, and higher minimum wages, and AL, MS, GA, TN say, “Never mind them pesky Socialist Yankees, Ya’ll come on down here and we’ll show you Free-market Capitalists a good time!”
So, sorry Mr. Lind, your whole article actually shows why the Blue system COULD and SHOULD work throughout the nation, but doesn’t. It’s because of the “parasitic”, ‘Leech’ Red states. Except for the last two paragraphs where you try to strike the mythical middle ground, and , untypically for you, sound like a typical MSM beltway pundit, the rest of your article actually proves it.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html
The link above presents a different view. California receives 78 cents federal spending per dollar paid in.
I recall an article that claimed that California could be in the black if they could operate on the revenues they raised rather than what they received back from the feds. I’ll see if I can find it and provide a link.
California has some real problems due to the “Tax Revolt”, but I think they are still a donor state.
Of course, I could be wrong.
That could be true, although the data you link to is six years old. There has been discussion about whether federal taxpayers are going to have to bail out California eventually.
C U N D — NYS may have stronger environmental laws and labor laws, but it does not have a higher minimum wage. We stay with the federal minimum wage. Otherwise, good comment.
Here’s a great article to send to your Republican relatives and friends. It’s by David Frum – “When Did the GOP Lose Touch With Reality”:
http://nymag.com/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/
I have some quibbles, but overall it’s pretty fair (coming from a Conservative) and well written.
And you’ve got to read the comments. Make sure you start at the oldest. At first, the comments are, for the most part, pretty positive and supportive of Frum. Then, I guess commenter’s were directed there from rightie websites, and the fun starts. Nothing original, of course. Those whack-a-doodles are incapable of originality. But it’s funny to read the same talking points by idiots who obviously didn’t read the article, but feel free to criticize Frum anyway. They prove his points about FOX NEWS and talk radio rather handily for him. But, of course, they are incapable of self-reflection, and reality is in either non-existent, or in another dimension.
If I don’t write anything more until then, I want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving!!!
I’ll avoid having any political discussions with my righty relatives, and stick to family issues, the weather, and sports.
I don’t think my Uncle’s ever forgiven me when, last summer, he started to rant about some nonsense or other on immigration, and I looked at him and said, You must have started watching FOX News.”
“How did you know?” he asked.
“Your IQ dropped a couple of dozen points.”
I still love my righty relatives – even if I don’t always like them! 🙂
PurpleGirl,
You’re right, I shouldn’t have use minimum wage – it’s a national, and state standard.
I suppose I meant that there are municipalities that have a higher rate than the Fed level. Or, am I mistaken in that?
I don’t have any data to prove it, but I concur with goatherd in my belief, that CA is a net donor state w regard to Federal tax receipts vs benefits. It’s unwillingness to meet its own internal state budget, thus risking default, of course stems from the same anti-gummint mindset, but it’s (so far) unrelated to its position as net donor.
btw, there’s a term for this dynamic of moocher states sponging off the more progressive ones: race to the bottom.
I have read that it is fairly common in foreign countries that pollution caused by a private business is ‘cleaned’ up with tax-payer money. I wonder, suppose the tax-payers of a US state were financially responsible for footing the bill to clean up the pollution caused by their private sector.
Clean-ups caused by pollutants can be very expensive. But if that expense was borne by a state’s tax-payers, I expect the tax-payers would cry foul – literally. Weak or non-existent environmental laws: Businesses pollute: Residents are adversely affected, and residents are required to foot the clean-up bill. The results would be interesting.
It’s fairly common here, too. The EPA cleans up a lot of messes made by business, on the taxpayers’ dimes. The perpetrators cannot always be compelled to do the cleanup themselves. I’m sure this is also true at state level, especially in “red” states. Tax payers generally aren’t aware of it, but of course they should be.
Delightfully OT: Meditators’ Minds Are More On-Task. Awesome photo of an OWSer meditating next to his tent.
“It’s fairly common here too.”
We have a number of “superfund” sites in Florida, Lake Apopka, just north of Orlando was so contaminated that we had a massive bird kill where thousands of pelicans, gulls, and wading birds perished about 10 yrs ago.
The source of the pollution was the “muck farms” on the north shore of the lake that used and overused pesticides and fertilizers, no doubt also getting into the Floridan aquifer (drinking water).
Going a bit ot here, but a fire has been lit by the campus cops in UC Davis that will burn like no other.They have REALLY pissed off the under 30 crowd, the ultra tech savy kids who will be out for revenge against “Authoritah!”
Ain’t gonna be purdy, and the kids know they don’t need to take to the streets to make things difficult; it’s all just a key stroke away……..
In other words, retaliate smart, not hard. Could be good.
Hey Moonbat. I read through a few more articles and jogged my memory a bit. Now, I am not even sure that I concur with my previous comment. I’ve have seen the list of “donor” states cited from both sides of the political spectrum. It tends to vary from year to year of course. California is a huge economy, with a lot of wealthy, high earning residents and a cost of living that discourages people from retiring there, which brings down federal SSI and Medicare contributions. So they may well still be a “donor” state. I haven’t found anything really recent either and doubtless the recession of 2008 changed the picture and the stimulus increased the federal dollar side.
I am not sure that it matters. I am looking at the picture from a distance, but California has a notorious prison system, which still costs huge amounts of money because of conservative “law and order” legislation and conservative real estate tax policies. Their school system is in decline. So in short, what both you and Maha wrote seems to have substantial merit.
The “donor” state staus was just something that bubbled up from the inky shadows of my memory. That can always be trouble. But, if I find the article about the budget, I’ll send a link.
Sounds suspiciously close to saying that the donor states should Go Galt .
I’m not asking the donor states to change anything. This proposal is strictly between the federal government and the moocher states.
The federal taxes paid by union workers in the north are helping to ship union jobs to moocher “right to work†states. So, the moocher states are mooching wealth out of the whole country in more ways than one.
Dag gone it Maha why’d you have to lay it out so succinctly? Who you think you is Herman Cain. It is true that most of the dimwitted and serially unemployed are far less productive than us workin folks here up north, but going there requires body Armour. Cause see folks up north on the dole, well that’s a way of life, us’in down here well we paid our taxes. We got it coming.
In anticipation of the upcoming healthcare mandate “decision”, some context.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwO8vCLcTE4
Happy tday y’all
“Work smart, not hard.”
It took me nearly 40 yrs and two knee joints to figure that out.
Happy Turkey day everyone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdCFLzpIqyU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=MmusrhoEPyU
I noticed I left out a comma in my last comment. I meant to write, “Hey, Moonbat” as in “Hello” not a rude call for attention. Please accept my apologies.
Erinyes, do you remember that huge phosphate tailing pile that washed into the Gulf, near Ruskin and created a huge dead zone?
“When conservatives scream bloody murder, show them the Laffer curve. Tell them that according to their own theories, cutting taxes grows tax revenue. So, why do they continue to need federal subsidies that other states are not getting? If they are running short of funds, they can just cut taxes more!” — That WOULD be sweet!!
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and remember, you can’t help people who don’t want to be helped, so don’t feel too required to try to convert your unwashed relatives to seeing the light. Just offer to take everyone who doesn’t want to watch football to see “Happy Feet 2” and relax while they get subverted by the climate change message that underlies the plot. They won’t be able to leave because the kids would revolt, and you can pretend you didn’t know it was there!
If you need a laugh this Thanksgiving morning, read this about Pam Geller’s boycott of stealth IslamoTurkey’s by Butterball!
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/pamela-geller-beware-stealth-halal-thanksgiving-turkeys
I won’t link to her site directly, it’ll only encourage her, but you can get a good idea what this psycho-hater is blathering on about – Halal Turkey’s.
From what I know, there is little or no difference between Kosher and Halal, except the Rabbi, who performs, or oversees, the former. They’re both meant to be humane ways to kill – turkey’s in this case.
What’next?
GOP POV:
Them IslamoFascistMuslim Halal’s turkey is bad enough!
But think about the ultimate in horrors and miscegenation – the mixed race “turducken!” AN OBAMANATION ABOMINATION!!!
What kind of an amoral atheist deviant takes the turkey, America’s National Bird, the bird with the most WHITE meat, and inter-breeds them with stupid chickens, and them dark meat, web-footed, ducks?
What?
Oh, you kill the chicken, put it inside the damned duck, stuff ’em both in the turkey, and bake ’em?
That does sound good!
Can we make N*gC*inkUslims, where we kill the N*gger’s, put “em inside the damn Ch*nk’s, stuff ’em both into Muslim’s, and bake ’em?
Now THAT”S a meal I’d GIVE THANKS FOR!!!
When do we officially declare this an ‘Asylum’ nation?
No, not a nation where put-upon people from around the world can find peace, and new lives – but a nation where a good portion of our own citizens belong in ASYLUM’S!
Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!!!
Halal turkey’s!
Oy yoy yoy…
Goatherd,
I remember the phosphate incident.
We seem to have some water quality problems throught Central Florida; I like to take a small plane ride over the moonscape in Polk and eastern Hillsborough where the phosphate is strip mined and well hidden from the public.