I want to direct your attention to Josh Marshall’s post, “A Proud Day for Obama.” I think most of you will appreciate it.
Netanyahu is sputtering, AIPAC is sputtering, righties are sputtering. Heh.
The Mahablog
Politics. Society. Group Therapy.
I want to direct your attention to Josh Marshall’s post, “A Proud Day for Obama.” I think most of you will appreciate it.
Netanyahu is sputtering, AIPAC is sputtering, righties are sputtering. Heh.
Pam Geller says: “What delusional mental acrobatics must be engaged in to imagine a Philistine state living in peace and harmony.”
Maybe she should crack open her Old Testament told find the answer to that question.
She really said Philistine and not Palestinian?
Sure she did..I’m sure it was intentional, but a philistine is not a Palestinian,never was…Goliath was a Philistine…and we all know what happened to him.
Nothing may come of this overture, but there are times when I really feel good about Obama (despite other misgivings), and this is one of them. It’s leadership to see things that others refuse to, and to spell it out, no matter what the reaction. This is a fine moment, and I’m proud of him for it. He’s been on a roll lately – dispatching the birthers, OBL, and now this. I hope for some continued good momentum through the 2012 election.
I have a righty friend who calls “Israelis” Israelites. I think it gives credence to his biblical world view.(in his mind).
I will liik on youtube for the AIPAC tape.
I feel the same as Moonbat, and I do hope for a viable solution, which will eventually be a two state solution. The amount of money and lives wasted in the Levant since the conception of Israel is staggering; I believe every person on both sides of the conflict could have been given a million bucks each, but war and death somehow always prevail. I guess it’s a human thing…
“and we all know what happened to him.”
Yeah, a REALLY bad haircut can ruin your day……
Erinyes: Goliath was killed by a young David. The haircut was given to Samson.
Now, ain’t you glad you voted for him? Thank you Mr. President.
Oh yeah, the sling and the rock story.
Thanks for the correction….
It looks as if Obama “Trumped” Bibi.
I think in the future we can say when Obama makes someone look bad, that he “Trumped” XXX.
I may have issues with him on many things, but it is nice to have an intelligent President, instead of a gibbering macho .
I know that fairly diverse peoples lived there in Biblical times, but isn’t “Palestine” a second century latinization of “Philistia”? I am not supporting Pam Geller’s use of the term “Philistine” but, the Phoenician and Aegean people who lived there might have been the ancestors of the people of Palestine. Of course, any actual historical merit takes the back seat to Geller’s desire to paint the Palestinians as the long established historical and cultural enemies of the Jews. The negative connotation of the word “Philistine” really only comes from that fact that the most popular historical account was written by people who were their enemies.
Of course, I could also be wrong.
It is interesting that the only person killed in “Operation Entebbe” was Benjamin Netanyahu’s brother, who was a Lt. Colonel in the commandos . Sometimes I wonder what psychological effect that might have had on him.
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People on the Right always seem to praise “straight talk”, dislike foreign aid and criticize any international cooperation as being “influenced” or “controlled” by a foreign power. All of those opinions make a complete turnabout when Israel is concerned. I certainly don’t wish Israel or its people any harm, but I do agree with what Josh Marshall wrote. Peace really is in everyone’s interest.
goatherd,
I sometimes wonder if peace really is in both parties interests?
Each side has had a chance at reaching some sort of an accord over the last 30+ years.
Israel and Arafat came close, but then he decided it may not be in his own personal best interest.
I ask myself if peace is in the best interest of Likud and Hamas? And I don’t think so.
For the people there – YES.
But, like our own corporate militarists here, ‘There be profits in them there hatreds.’
The negative connotation of the word “Philistine†really only comes from that fact that the most popular historical account was written by people who were their enemies.
A more accurate understanding would be that a Philistine is an enemy of God, and is understood as such by both Jews and Christians. Gellar was just code talking to her followers. I supposed it’s possible that the word Palestine could be morphed from a name of a tribe that lived in that area 1200 years BCE, but there is no possiblity that the word Philistine could be used in a senible way other than the derogatory sense in which Gellar used it.
Every time I see the name Gellar…I think of Buffy the Vampire slayer…Maybe I’m just a dirty old man..a la Newt Gingrich?
Maybe it would be nice if Obama suspended military aid or financial aid to Israel for a temporary “review” just to add a little more substance to his words. It is nice that he can identify a solution to the Middle East peace process, but getting it implemented might take a little more than words. We’ll get to see what happens when the Palestinians go before the United Nations in August to plead for their cause…Oh yeah, I forgot.. Obama says we don’t want to isolate Israel, or put any pressure on them to act before they are ready.
I am interested in seeing how the land swap thing goes down..They are going to swap occupied territory for occupied territory? I seriously doubt that Israel with swap one square inch of it’s original borders for any of the land that it’s taken by force. And I know that Jerusalem isn’t even up for negotiations because Jerusalem is at the center of the myth of God giving Israel to the Jews.
Cundgulag
Alas, I was looking for a way to end the comment and got a little too pollyannish. There are groups of people and political parties who benefit from hostilities and war. But, in the long run for the people of any nation as an aggregate, it’s a huge waste of people’s lives and resources if an alternative is possible. Maybe I am being simple, but, I think that the people of Palestine and Israel could achieve greater things. You know the “what might have been.”
Swami,
I think you are right about the military aid. We need to shake the stick a little bit.
But, you should have read the sentence that preceded the one you quoted. It was:
“Of course, any actual historical merit takes the back seat to Geller’s desire to paint the Palestinians as the long established historical and cultural enemies of the Jews.”
As you say ”a Philistine is an enemy of God, and is understood as such by both Jews and Christians”. Couldn’t that be because “the most popular historical account (the Old Testament) was written by people who were their enemies.” (i.e. the Israelites or Jews) I don’t write this to argue with you, but to point out that we are saying similar, not contradictory things.
I haven’t read anything on the subject for many years, if I recall correctly, there was a school of archeology known as the “Biblical Minimalists” who thought a lot of the conflict written about in the Old Testament was actually fabricated, because at the time military conquest of plot of land gave a more powerful claim to title than years of occupancy. This seems likely given that most of the tribes were nomadic. They contend that there isn’t sufficient archeological evidence to support a lot of the historical events described in the Old Testament and that because when archeology was in its infancy, the Old Testament was virtually the only “historical” account available. When an archeological site was found, the discoverers tried to associate it with a Biblical account.
goatherd,
I never doubted that your heart was in the right place. 🙂
goatherd, I agree fully with what you are saying. My comment was meant as an elaboration of sorts to emphasize the reason why Israel and the Philistines were enemies.. As far as any accounts are concerned the sole reason is that the Philistines worshiped a different God (Baal) from the Israelites, and that God sided with the true believers…which would be ? I know that is all gobbledygook and severely tainted history at best, but it’s been carried forward to the present day to support an irrationality in the way American foreign policy toward Israel is viewed and conducted.
There is a strong Christian/ religious bias that has infected the thinking of our elected representatives regarding Israel to the point where America’s best interests aren’t be served..And that bothers me tremendously because of it’s irrationality.
And, please don’t think I’m criticizing your comments. I respect your intellect and comments and always enjoy reading them. As for me, I’m as big a fraud as Newt Gingrich when it comes to knowing what I talking about.
I accidentally posted an incomplete comment. If anyone has soldiered through this long winded eruption, my condolences, and you can skip down to the last paragraph of this edition. Maybe Maha in her wisdom and knowledge of “all internet traditions, can delete the redundant post.
Swami, that’s very kind of you. I enjoy your perspectives and insight as well. I try to be open to criticism, and like most codgers, I get addled so, please, tell me when I’ve got something turned around, it really doesn’t bother me.
I think anything that brings Pam Gellar to mind puts me in a fractious mood and I suppose many of us experience a “Maalox moment” when she comes to mind. I just didn’t want to be misunderstood and appear as if I were supporting her.
“There is a strong Christian/ religious bias that has infected the thinking of our elected representatives regarding Israel to the point where America’s best interests aren’t be served..And that bothers me tremendously because of it’s irrationality.” –Certainly put more clearly than I was able.
It’s ironic to be looking at the drawn out misery of Israeli/Palestinian relations and trying to discuss each party’s “best interests”. I suppose there is a large measure of arrogance involved in merely considering the matter, especially if you’re just a hayseed from rural NC. But, at the same time, it’s very difficult not to become engaged in the issue and not to have an “opinion” despite the fact that it seems “above everyone’s pay grade”.
Clearly, there are those who reap power and profit from the situation and are “rewarded” with privilege and prominence. (Sorry about all the p’s, I didn’t want it to be alliterative.) But, my feeble attempts at understanding Buddhism and the remnants of my Sunday school classes have left me with some vestige of the belief that seeking and achieving power and privilege may give people the sense that they are living a great life, but, it really is a tragic distraction from life and what it means to be human. My inner DFH (who still has a full head of hair by the way) still tells me that we are here for some greater purpose and that is to “participate joyfully in the sorrows of mankind” as Joe Campbell put it. We are here to engage and commune with others (some nonhuman, I have found) and by doing that we inform and enlarge our experience of being human.
I won’t mention anyone specifically, but the list is long and familiar. The whole parade of powerful people, liars and power brokers strike me as “miserable sons of bitches” as my father would have said, and I wouldn’t trade my little life for theirs under any circumstances. The concept of a “soul” may be logical withdrawn, but it is persistent, perhaps morphed into a “Buddha nature”. But, some part of me still holds on to the concept, if only for convenience sake.
People and countries can lose their souls. Israel has treated the Palestinians in a detestable manner. They hold them in virtual prisons and torture them, legally and at their will. (what better way to perpetuate terrorism, than by torturing fathers, sons and cousins?) In doing this they have lost their purpose, their identity and their soul, if such a thing were to exist.
According to Hebrew history, god gave the land of Canaan (and all land between the Mediterranean and the Tigris River) to the Hebrews – which I have always thought a bit capricious and cavalier of god (but that’s a whole other story) – and right-wing Jews continue to believe that version of Jewish history.
Israel is a first-world country and any change in the configuration or hegemony in that piece of real-estate, as seen by many Jews. would directly threaten its present status, which is why Bibi and his cohorts have for at least 65 years treated any possible negotiations to change it by simply stalling.
And even if a settlement was achieved, the chances of the right-wing Israelis living up to the agreement is unlikely. ( Under the original Balfour Agreement, Israel was NOT to become a state and immigration was limited to 1000/year, of course completely disregarded once settlement started.)
Wow, I got to see Bibi making his speech before Congress today…Certainly a lot of standing ovations..If I were a trial lawyer having to prove that the United States is not an honest broker in the Middle East peace process that scene would be exhibit A. There was more sucking up and unwarranted adulation than one of George Bush’s State of The Union speeches. A sickening sight to behold!