The greatest tragedy ever perpetrated by a television entertainment executive was the canceling of Josh Joss Whedon’s series “Firefly.” But Whedon sold them another series, “Dollhouse,” which turned out to be smart and entertaining. It was also one of the few dramatic series on television today that was not a clone of “ER,” “Law and Order” or “CSI.” And now Fox has canceled “Dollhouse.” There will be a couple more episodes produced, and then it’s over. In a just world, Joss Whedon would have his own channel.
The Mahablog
Politics. Society. Group Therapy.
I wish Fox would follow their Family Guy precedent and bring back Firefly. And canceling Dollhouse doesn’t make much sense either… I think it has potential in a competitive time slot – Friday night just isn’t right for it.
Firefly was wonderful. I own the series on DVD and rewatch it all the time just for the sharp dialog. I wish I spoke Mandarin so I could get the private jokes…
It’s *Joss* Whedon
Okay I’m sorry but this. is. nuts. I enjoyed Buffy, really enjoyed Angel, and found Firefly tremendously dull (though I clearly acknowledge it was a good show) but Dollhouse never found its rhythm, was gimmicked beyond belief, had weak performances from Pinkett and Dushku and frankly told us nothing new or examined anything from a different perspective. Maybe that’s my overreaction to his manic fans of which I do not know enough to class you as or as not, but Dollhouse was clearly his weakest series to date and Fox not only gave it a chance but promoted it. At some point if he cannot connect with viewers then the problem is with him.
I agree with MNPUndit. I was (and am) a *huge* Buffy fan but found Firefly really weak. Battlestar Galactical was the sci fi show I had expected firefly would be. We are watching Dollhouse right now on DVD and we are enjoying it but I’m afraid its not going to live up to its potential either. Still, I think the least you could do is move a show to a better time slot before jerking it.
OT but another show that was truly brilliant but which was cancelled was The Riches with Eddie Izzard and Minnie Driver.
aimai
At this point, is there anything worth a darn on TV?
Of course, if they hadn’t cancelled Firefly, we wouldn’t have gotten Serenity, fantastic movie. Bought it on regular, then on Blueray.
As a Mandarin speaker, I can only tell you that the quality of the Chinese spoken on Firefly was abominable. I used to spend time with Chinese friends making bets as to what the actors were trying to say. The best moment came when “zaogao” (roughly “Oh crap!”) was pronounced as sow cow.
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Having watched all of Firefly, I’d say it had good moments, but ultimately wasn’t very convincing as a narrative, and the characters seemed uncertain as to who they really were. Entertaining, but not a great series by any realistic standard.
Entertaining, but not a great series by any realistic standard.
Bite your tongue. I watched the Firefly episodes in order on DVDs, and it was a religious experience. Greatest television series not allowed to even finish one season of all time.
Well, blurgh. There goes my Tahmoh Penikett fix. (Hey, at least as good an actor as David Boreanaz, Nick Brendan or Marc Blucas. The James Marsters-es are few & far between.)
Plus the husband-and-wife writing team of Jed & Maurissa was really coming into its own; the final Season 1 episode that no one saw unless they have the DVDs showed promise of brilliance. (And was fun for those of us who remember the yellow-eyed movie bully, “Scut Farkis.”)
Whedon has said he’s going to limit himself to Web-based productions from now on. I could stand some more “Dr. Horrible”! But that also means my teevee haz a sad.
Another show that was truly brilliant but which was cancelled was The Riches with Eddie Izzard and Minnie Driver.
I really liked that too… and wasn’t it on F/X, also owned by Fox Corp?
Speaks-truth-to-a**holes Wanda Sykes has her new talkshow canned by Fox in 5… 4… 3… 2….
At this point, is there anything worth a darn on TV?
Well, I’m looking forward to The Prisoner remake, on AMC next week. The DVR is primed and ready to go. As for Joss Whedon, I’ve never seen anything he’s done (I just came off a four year TV fast a few months ago). The Prisoner notwithstanding, I tend to not get sucked into serials. I did enjoy “Joan of Arcadia” a few years back.
OK, so anybody that doesn’t understand that Firefly was easily one of the best sci-fi TV shows ever made should absolutely get their television watching rights revoked.
Battlestar Galactica was also one of the greats, no doubt. One of the primary things they had that Firefly never did, though, was time to actually tell their story. Had Firefly gotten to do as many seasons as BG did, no telling what they would have produced.
And, as a registered Expert on Everything (just ask my wife, I’m sure she’ll back me up)(ok, relatively sure), I don’t have opinions, I have facts, so that’s a fact right there.
Also, anybody having a problem with Joss Whedon should just watch Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog, with the understanding that this is what the guy produced in what was effectively his spare time.
-me
Maybe I’d like Firefly better if I saw it again in the proper episode order – I know some diehard fans of it, and I’m happy to give it another chance. I thought it was uneven, with some pretty weak episodes but also some really good stuff. It had promise, and I hoped it would have time to develop. The thing is, it was an expensive show and its numbers were never strong. Dollhouse was similar, not great numbers, and initially the quality was uneven. But then it delivered some solid episodes, and this season’s aired at least one really good one so far. (Meanwhile, the Sarah Connor Chronicles was also expensive.) Firefly got some great press and write-ups (EW highlighted it), and Fox screwed up a number of things with Firefly from what I’ve read. However (this subject comes up every so often in Lisa da Moraes’ WaPo chats) Whedon probably should pitch his shows to a good cable network or one of the smaller networks. He wants big network bucks, but he doesn’t deliver those numbers. Granted, TV execs are ridiculously risk averse and networks don’t give a show the chance to grow. But Whedon’s recent efforts have had niche audiences. That could work extremely well non-network, but Whedon would have to choose that. (Some points deal with a network giving less money upfront might also work.)
For comparison, ABC and Lost smartly set a final date a few years back, which was the right call for that show. But Lost also started out huge, and won an Emmy, before plunging in the ratings. ABC green-lit it to begin with because the network was ailing and desperate. So maybe Whedon should pitch to NBC…
I’ve been a fan of Joss’ work since Buffy but I understand he’s not everyone’s cup of joe.
Dollhouse got off to a rickety start in its first season but then about midway became awesome. This season is off to a strong start and I’m glad we’re getting all 13 episodes despite the early cancellation.
I’m not a rabid Fox defender but I do recognize that if not for them, some of my favorite shows (Firefly, Dollhouse, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, The Riches) probably wouldn’t have been seen at all.
Sorry, but Firefly had a weak backstory, an unconvincing marriage of space flight technology and the Old Wild West, and some of the most stilted interaction between adults that has ever graced the TV screen. How many times did we go through the ritual insults of the Companion by Captain Reynolds? How many times did Jayne apparently have schizophrenia about his own motives? So I decline to bite my tongue to order. It’s no defense to say “But it might have been great..”. This only tells us that a) it wasn’t great and b) the reason it wasn’t great is that somewhere along the line the writing and plotting wasn’t up to snuff in the greatness stakes. I am glad you had a religious experience, but I have to file this one under Strange Religious Cults Of Inexplicable Origin and Dubious Nature. It’s a large file, and it grows every day.
I am not a fan of sci-fi; and, as a result have found less and less to watch on TV and at the movies because it is so big these days. However, I have to confess that despite my dislike for sci-fi, I have seen every episode of the original Star Trek series numerous times, most every episode of Star Trek TNG (because I was in love with Patrick Stewart’s Shakespearean voice), and most of the movies. This occurred because I have many friends who were Trekkies and I am always the person who goes to see things with friends so they don’t have to go alone. The original TV series was on when I lived with other people and one TV; and, so I watched Star Trek so I could watch some other show that was important to me.
So, I guess that explains why I don’t have a clue about Firefly. Never heard of it. I have heard of Buffy and Angel; but, never Firefly.
I still don’t get what people saw in Firefly. So many people with whom I normally agree think it was AMAZING, but I never got it. In a choice between a rerun of Firefly or an episode of Andromeda, I’d have a tough choice, and that’s NOT because I thought Andromeda did more than keep the commercials from bumping into each other, if you know what I mean. As far as I’m concerned Firefly had to end so that Nathan Fillion could move on to Castle where he belongs. Yes, Firefly fans, you may burn me in effigy now.
As a former Buffy fan, I think Whedon’s biggest problem is continuing to go with Fox, the network that has killed more shows both good and bad than can be counted, and not politely. I’m sure Seth Macfarlane has some stories about Family Guy 1.0. (From before he dug up the incriminating evidence, or whatever it was that he used to get back on the air, and given a spinoff to boot.)
It would be a shame if Whedon let experience with those bozoes sour him to TV entirely. Maybe his next show will include the proper mind-control encoding for my brain, so I’ll think it’s AMAZING too. 😉
Hmm, the commercials for The Prisoner do look interesting.
V has been kind of eh. Stargate Universe has been lame. Lost should be back on sometime in 2021. Sigh.
an unconvincing marriage of space flight technology and the Old Wild West,
Yes, it was a space western, which is why I loved it. It created its own world with its own rules, which is what great fantasy does.
As far as I’m concerned Firefly had to end so that Nathan Fillion could move on to Castle where he belongs.
Actually between Firefly and Castle he was the super-evil serial killer/sanctimonious Preacher who tried to kill Buffy and cost Xander his eye, in the final episodes of Buffy. And he also had a single-episode lark as fugitive Kate’s husband, a cop (oooh… irony!), on Lost.
Yeah, I know how that paragraph sounds. And I watch about 1/10th the teevee of my coworkers. Them’s some scary hypnotized humans.
Whedon is supposed to direct an episode or two of Glee this season, if that helps at all. And if he and anyone at Fox are still speaking.
maha • Nov 12, 2009 @10:27 pm
an unconvincing marriage of space flight technology and the Old Wild West,
Yes, it was a space western, which is why I loved it. It created its own world with its own rules, which is what great fantasy does
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No, great fantasy creates worlds with their own rules – and the rules are consistent and credible. It is preposterous to imagine that, after mastering space flight, a civilization would return to gun technology which is archaic now, and was never tremendously effective in its own day. If you have the industrial base to build space-craft and make them fairly readily available, you most certainly wouldn’t go back to popguns and pea-shooters when the AK47/UZI and nastier critters would be easy to produce. This is simply not credible, and it’s a major reason why Firefly is pretty entertaining, but no more than that. We use the words great (and genius) much too easily these days, and it’s part of the reason why mediocrity prospers and is rewarded above its merits.
and the rules are consistent and credible
You are way too literal for your own good. Fantasy is fantasy. The characters were flying around among scattered frontier worlds on the edge of civilization, and I think the series did a brilliant job of evoking that. I loved the quirky modes of speech and the uneven mix of advanced technology with old primitive stuff held together with duct tape. If it had all been advanced high tech it wouldn’t have been as much fun.
No, I am logical, not literal. There is a difference, and it is an important one. Fantasy is fantasy – but there is a reason why some fantasy is genuinely memorable, and that is that it makes sense, it holds together. I enjoyed Firefly as entertainment, but there’s no way that it is credible in the long run. As for your point about the fringes of civilization, I’d point out that real firepower makes its way to them with depressing regularity – look at Afghanistan. As for quirky modes of speech – what quirky modes of speech? Standard American dialect and atrocious Mandarin? Similarly, House is entertaining as a TV series, but not great – because it rests on a deeply flawed premise, namely, that a semi-pathological, manic-depressive drug addict would last a month in such a position. Let’s put it this way: one of the signs of greatness is that something lasts. Do you honestly think that in 10 years people will still be bothered about Firefly? I would suggest that you are confusing the adrenaline rush of entertainment with more longterm critical judgment.
Maja, I’m with you. Firefly was a wonderful series; fresh, clever, different. I loved the characters and I believe that for a single season, they were able to be fleshed out pretty well. I was so sad when it was cancelled, and hardly mollified by Serenity. What might have come from that show and Whedon’s brilliant mind we will never know.
On a side note, my teenage son and I caught a rerun of Barney Miller with “Book” actor Ron Glass in his youth, and my son couldn’t believe it was him.
“OK, so anybody that doesn’t understand that Firefly was easily one of the best sci-fi TV shows ever made should absolutely get their television watching rights revoked.”
This is what I mean about manic fans.
Anyhow, on the Riches, that was a fun show but the strike ended production and the actors moved on by the time it was over. I didn’t like Eddie Izzard until that show actually.
But if I could say something about fantasy worlds. Their internal logic is important, but when it’s so incredible compared to real science it’s difficult to set that aside. It wasn’t the guns for me, it was the so many planets in a single star system. BSG did that, but that was a homage to the original show and they moved on from that pretty quickly. Personally, as space westerns go, I prefer Cowboy Bebop.
Loved Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dollhouse, so I guess I’m certifiable 😉
But, I don’t understand why Joss keeps going back to Fox! Haven’t they kicked him in the nuts enough times? I’d love to see him go over to a strong cable channel or something that’s willing to invest in his shows. They tend to start slow with all the pieces being moved into place, then take off like gangbusters. Fox obviously can’t deal with that 😈
I know y’all love to hate on Fox, but, remember, this is Fox entertainment, anon, not Fox News, and, really, every channel does the same. How many times have ABC, CBS, NBC, The CW, etc, canceled good shows that do not get ratings? Sometimes they do not even let a show really get going. ABC wacked The Unusuals after 10 episodes, excellent show, tough time slot. I’m not even sure they broadcast all 10 episodes. It’s just part and parcel of television. Which, yes, sucks. Especially if the series is going towards an end point, and you never get there.
Fox has wacked some good ones, though. Futurama (stuck in a bad time slot), Firefly, and, for those of us who are a bit older, The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr (there’s a flashback, eh?) Stupid Showtime killed Dead Like Me.
“I know y’all love to hate on Fox, but, remember, this is Fox entertainment, anon, not Fox News”
How do we make that distinction when Fox News usally makes such a seamless transition between Conservative fantasy masquerading as news, and the hard fact reality that really is news? Seems to me that the majority of Fox newscasters have thus far disavowed being newscasters, and have claimed the title of entertainer when they’ve been pinned down by facts on their incessant conservative spew.