You regulars may talk among yourselves, unmolested, I hope.
15 thoughts on “Open Thread”
Maha,
Thanks for the link to that “Israel Rules” article. That is an excellent objective look at this mess. I’m not sure if Obama will stand up to the Israel firsters, its a tough thing to do. It seems 99.5% of everything is completely pro Israel without question, I saw my senator on CNN and he just repeats the same “Israel has the right, etc” line as everyone else in government and media. Somehow he’ll have to convince alot of people that Israel’s behavior now is only going to make matters worse in the future (as the Salon article points out). I feel he probably knows the right thing to do, but I’m not sure he has the stones to stand up to overwhelming bias against the Palestinians in government and the media. He is after all a politician. Would it have possible for the neoconsuperfratboy to fuck anything else up on his way out?
Again, I don’t think the problems that Obama will face will be anchored in reality.
Anything he does will immediately be spun as “the worst possible response” either by the Right, or if it is indeed “the worst possible response” by “our” guys.
It took almost 8 years before a majority of the voters could see the horrible effects of GWs policies.
It will take at least another 8 years before any improvements will be admitted to by a majority of the voters.
In the meantime it will all be a matter of managing perceptions. There is a slim chance that the cynical “the worse it is for the American people, the better it is for us in the next election” strategy of the Republicans can be countered. But worrying about the fine print in Obama’s policies isn’t the way to do it.
Let’s see if Obama really is a Chicago politician, I think he is. His dark side is at least as awesome as his Reagan like happy, happy campaign talk.
Mike — First, Bush’s “favorability” ratings finally dipped below 50 percent in 2005, after Katrina, although they’d been on a slide for some time. So it took a majority about 4 1/2 years to see Bush for what he was, but I think 9/11 gave him a lot more time to screw up with impunity than he would have had otherwise.
I don’t think the American people are as dense as you think they are. I believe a majority understand that the nation is massively screwed up and that it will take some time to turn things around. Obama doesn’t have an infinite amount of time to show results, but if he stays in communication with the people I think he’ll be given a grace period.
Polls tell us that Obama is very popular right now, and people want him to succeed. This is normal at the beginning of a new administration. The national political culture has considerably changed from what it was eight years ago. The extreme Right no longer completely dominates the nation’s political discourse; I sincerely believe vast numbers of Americans finally are tuning the wingnuts out. This is probably less true in some parts of the country than others, but on the whole the American people are in a very different place from where they were eight years ago.
In the meantime it will all be a matter of managing perceptions. There is a slim chance that the cynical “the worse it is for the American people, the better it is for us in the next election†strategy of the Republicans can be countered.
The way it can be countered is to actually use government to improve peoples’ lives in tangible ways, such as instituting some kind of national health care plan. Again, people are not as stupid as you think they are. A majority of Americans understood even before 2005 that Bush was bullshitting them on the economy, for example. I think the American people can be fooled on foreign policy issues, but it’s harder to bullshit them about things they can see happening with their own eyes.
“I sincerely believe vast numbers of Americans finally are tuning the wingnuts out.”
Even after almost 8 years of GW, 46% of the voter selected McCain/Palin. McCain/Palin is an “improvement” over Bush/Cheney in only one way, they are both less intelligent than the incumbents (and would cause less damage?). As has been pointed out, McCain was even a worse pilot than GW.
If there is not hard evidence in 2012 for “are you better off today than you were 4 years ago” the wingnuts, perhaps with an assist from treasonous dirty tricks (Regan and the hostages) could elect Sarah Palin.
The Democrats are already looking for an excuse to self destruct.
Senator Feinstein threatening to vote against Obama’s choice for CIA after she had approved, without comment all of GWs choices is an indication of things to come. And soon, if an economic miracle doesn’t happen.
Maisy, hold the phone. As if things aren’t effed-up enough in Gaza right now, professional fraudster “Joe the Plumber” is going over there as a “war correspondent”!
Senator Feinstein threatening to vote against Obama’s choice for CIA after she had approved, without comment all of GWs choices is an indication of things to come.
No, Mike. There’s nothing there, it’s just a political courting ritual..and Obama has already bowed to her in acknowledgment of her political power. Diane just needed a little attention. Don’t we all need to be acknowledged to some degree?
Edward R. Murrow move over!
Joe the plumber is a war correspondent?
WOW!!
I was thinking of opening a brain surgery office in my garage, this is without a doubt a sign from God, discount lobotomies will be open for business tomorrow!
Theatre of the absurd…………
LOL. Joe the War Correspondent? Is this guy Superman? What can’t he do? Palin will need a running mate. He might be just the super-hero for the job.
…almost as good as a reality show, which it really might be. Let’s see what profundities arise from this one…though I’d rather be spared.
Is there a markup guide on this site somewhere? I still can’t do links and italics….
“Let’s see if Obama really is a Chicago politician, I think he is. His dark side is at least as awesome as his Reagan like happy, happy campaign talk.”
I’ve strongly suspected Obama has some steel in their under all the niceness…that the so-called “magic negro” thusly annointed by right-wing-world will be the bad-ass that bites them hard in ways not yet imagined.
However, I am a bit concerned about his economic team’s inclusion of many who seemed complicit in the situation that led to the current turmoil.
One might read this in two ways…that he is knuckling under in symbolic or short-terms ways to ease market fears with these same types who may predominate on Wall Street (nobody needs them thinking the sky is falling) or he plans to lead them in a direction they’d never go themselves thus exposing those who cannot march in the right direction.
The government could have purchased Citigroup with the money is lent plus interest and new appointees Geithner, Summers and Rubin are neck deep in Citi. Citi has enormous power and mere letters to Mexican government leaders (Citi owns Banamex) have led to repression of indigenous movements there.
Who are we fooling regarding where power really lies? This gives me the creeps and no one has been able to get inside Obama’s head on this yet. Is this “keeping enemies close” or knuckling under?
There also seem to be some stirrings amongst small business organizations as the National Venture Capital Association attempts to re-define small businiess as “independently owned” to include firms in which venture capitalists own up to 51% (why not 49%, LOL).
Early in Bush’s first term there had been excellent articles in major news publications regarding how the SBA was turning its back on small business in favor of the concerns of large corporations. The SBA became a joke…a sham.
Short of some Sherman Act revival, what can be done? The battles of the very, very big vs. the not-so-big are being fought in many different ways. During Bush’s tenure most of those in small businesses were outside of the income levels benefitting most from the taxation lanscape, as it had been rearranged by Bush.
These are the things I am concerned about…among others.
With regard to JTP, I think Hunter S. Thompson summed it up best:
“When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.”
Anyone else tired of hearing people say “Obama MUST do this”
“Obama MUST do that”. He isn’t even president yet and it sounds to me like many don’t want to agree and are just sorry he isn’t saying more so they could be more specific on what they don’t agree about.
Pat, it took me a while to figure out the codes too.
To illustrate, I have to replace the “less than” character with a {, and the “greater than” with a }, otherwise I don’t think they’ll show up in this comment. The “less than” and “greater than” characters are above comma and period on my keyboard.
For bold: {b} immediately before your text, and {/b} immediately after. For italic: just replace “b” with “i”.
For links, I just cut & paste the link into my comment text, and the link’s created automatically. More savvy commenters will have to explain how you can type your own text over the http address.
s,
maha’s had some posts on that very subject, most recently “What’s Obama To Do?” on January 5th.
In short, yes, most of us are sick of it. It seems to me that a lot of people just don’t understand how the transition of power works in this country. Strangely, many of those people are more than eight years old. Short memories, I guess.
Joan, I’m late on this (sorry). If you are still watching this post, the link syntax is:
<a href=”http://www.whatever.com”>the text that shows</a>
Maha,
Thanks for the link to that “Israel Rules” article. That is an excellent objective look at this mess. I’m not sure if Obama will stand up to the Israel firsters, its a tough thing to do. It seems 99.5% of everything is completely pro Israel without question, I saw my senator on CNN and he just repeats the same “Israel has the right, etc” line as everyone else in government and media. Somehow he’ll have to convince alot of people that Israel’s behavior now is only going to make matters worse in the future (as the Salon article points out). I feel he probably knows the right thing to do, but I’m not sure he has the stones to stand up to overwhelming bias against the Palestinians in government and the media. He is after all a politician. Would it have possible for the neoconsuperfratboy to fuck anything else up on his way out?
Again, I don’t think the problems that Obama will face will be anchored in reality.
Anything he does will immediately be spun as “the worst possible response” either by the Right, or if it is indeed “the worst possible response” by “our” guys.
It took almost 8 years before a majority of the voters could see the horrible effects of GWs policies.
It will take at least another 8 years before any improvements will be admitted to by a majority of the voters.
In the meantime it will all be a matter of managing perceptions. There is a slim chance that the cynical “the worse it is for the American people, the better it is for us in the next election” strategy of the Republicans can be countered. But worrying about the fine print in Obama’s policies isn’t the way to do it.
Let’s see if Obama really is a Chicago politician, I think he is. His dark side is at least as awesome as his Reagan like happy, happy campaign talk.
Mike — First, Bush’s “favorability” ratings finally dipped below 50 percent in 2005, after Katrina, although they’d been on a slide for some time. So it took a majority about 4 1/2 years to see Bush for what he was, but I think 9/11 gave him a lot more time to screw up with impunity than he would have had otherwise.
I don’t think the American people are as dense as you think they are. I believe a majority understand that the nation is massively screwed up and that it will take some time to turn things around. Obama doesn’t have an infinite amount of time to show results, but if he stays in communication with the people I think he’ll be given a grace period.
Polls tell us that Obama is very popular right now, and people want him to succeed. This is normal at the beginning of a new administration. The national political culture has considerably changed from what it was eight years ago. The extreme Right no longer completely dominates the nation’s political discourse; I sincerely believe vast numbers of Americans finally are tuning the wingnuts out. This is probably less true in some parts of the country than others, but on the whole the American people are in a very different place from where they were eight years ago.
In the meantime it will all be a matter of managing perceptions. There is a slim chance that the cynical “the worse it is for the American people, the better it is for us in the next election†strategy of the Republicans can be countered.
The way it can be countered is to actually use government to improve peoples’ lives in tangible ways, such as instituting some kind of national health care plan. Again, people are not as stupid as you think they are. A majority of Americans understood even before 2005 that Bush was bullshitting them on the economy, for example. I think the American people can be fooled on foreign policy issues, but it’s harder to bullshit them about things they can see happening with their own eyes.
“I sincerely believe vast numbers of Americans finally are tuning the wingnuts out.”
Even after almost 8 years of GW, 46% of the voter selected McCain/Palin. McCain/Palin is an “improvement” over Bush/Cheney in only one way, they are both less intelligent than the incumbents (and would cause less damage?). As has been pointed out, McCain was even a worse pilot than GW.
If there is not hard evidence in 2012 for “are you better off today than you were 4 years ago” the wingnuts, perhaps with an assist from treasonous dirty tricks (Regan and the hostages) could elect Sarah Palin.
The Democrats are already looking for an excuse to self destruct.
Senator Feinstein threatening to vote against Obama’s choice for CIA after she had approved, without comment all of GWs choices is an indication of things to come. And soon, if an economic miracle doesn’t happen.
Maisy, hold the phone. As if things aren’t effed-up enough in Gaza right now, professional fraudster “Joe the Plumber” is going over there as a “war correspondent”!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28542733/
All I can think to say is “Bitch, please.“
Senator Feinstein threatening to vote against Obama’s choice for CIA after she had approved, without comment all of GWs choices is an indication of things to come.
No, Mike. There’s nothing there, it’s just a political courting ritual..and Obama has already bowed to her in acknowledgment of her political power. Diane just needed a little attention. Don’t we all need to be acknowledged to some degree?
Edward R. Murrow move over!
Joe the plumber is a war correspondent?
WOW!!
I was thinking of opening a brain surgery office in my garage, this is without a doubt a sign from God, discount lobotomies will be open for business tomorrow!
Theatre of the absurd…………
LOL. Joe the War Correspondent? Is this guy Superman? What can’t he do? Palin will need a running mate. He might be just the super-hero for the job.
…almost as good as a reality show, which it really might be. Let’s see what profundities arise from this one…though I’d rather be spared.
Is there a markup guide on this site somewhere? I still can’t do links and italics….
“Let’s see if Obama really is a Chicago politician, I think he is. His dark side is at least as awesome as his Reagan like happy, happy campaign talk.”
I’ve strongly suspected Obama has some steel in their under all the niceness…that the so-called “magic negro” thusly annointed by right-wing-world will be the bad-ass that bites them hard in ways not yet imagined.
However, I am a bit concerned about his economic team’s inclusion of many who seemed complicit in the situation that led to the current turmoil.
One might read this in two ways…that he is knuckling under in symbolic or short-terms ways to ease market fears with these same types who may predominate on Wall Street (nobody needs them thinking the sky is falling) or he plans to lead them in a direction they’d never go themselves thus exposing those who cannot march in the right direction.
The government could have purchased Citigroup with the money is lent plus interest and new appointees Geithner, Summers and Rubin are neck deep in Citi. Citi has enormous power and mere letters to Mexican government leaders (Citi owns Banamex) have led to repression of indigenous movements there.
Who are we fooling regarding where power really lies? This gives me the creeps and no one has been able to get inside Obama’s head on this yet. Is this “keeping enemies close” or knuckling under?
There also seem to be some stirrings amongst small business organizations as the National Venture Capital Association attempts to re-define small businiess as “independently owned” to include firms in which venture capitalists own up to 51% (why not 49%, LOL).
Early in Bush’s first term there had been excellent articles in major news publications regarding how the SBA was turning its back on small business in favor of the concerns of large corporations. The SBA became a joke…a sham.
Short of some Sherman Act revival, what can be done? The battles of the very, very big vs. the not-so-big are being fought in many different ways. During Bush’s tenure most of those in small businesses were outside of the income levels benefitting most from the taxation lanscape, as it had been rearranged by Bush.
These are the things I am concerned about…among others.
With regard to JTP, I think Hunter S. Thompson summed it up best:
“When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.”
Anyone else tired of hearing people say “Obama MUST do this”
“Obama MUST do that”. He isn’t even president yet and it sounds to me like many don’t want to agree and are just sorry he isn’t saying more so they could be more specific on what they don’t agree about.
Pat, it took me a while to figure out the codes too.
To illustrate, I have to replace the “less than” character with a {, and the “greater than” with a }, otherwise I don’t think they’ll show up in this comment. The “less than” and “greater than” characters are above comma and period on my keyboard.
For bold: {b} immediately before your text, and {/b} immediately after. For italic: just replace “b” with “i”.
For links, I just cut & paste the link into my comment text, and the link’s created automatically. More savvy commenters will have to explain how you can type your own text over the http address.
s,
maha’s had some posts on that very subject, most recently “What’s Obama To Do?” on January 5th.
In short, yes, most of us are sick of it. It seems to me that a lot of people just don’t understand how the transition of power works in this country. Strangely, many of those people are more than eight years old. Short memories, I guess.
Joan, I’m late on this (sorry). If you are still watching this post, the link syntax is:
<a href=”http://www.whatever.com”>the text that shows</a>