Lots of people are razzng Richard Cohen today for his column “What Is the Value of Algebra?” Background: Los Angeles high school students must pass a year of algebra and a year of geometry in order to graduate, and this requirement is causing inordinate numbers of students to drop out in their senior years. Cohen points to one student who failed algebra six times in six semesters, and who finally abandoned her books and disappeared from the school. He writes,
I confess to be one of those people who hate math. I can do my basic arithmetic all right (although not percentages) but I flunked algebra (once), barely passed it the second time — the only proof I’ve ever seen of divine intervention — somehow passed geometry and resolved, with a grateful exhale of breath, that I would never go near math again. I let others go on to intermediate algebra and trigonometry while I busied myself learning how to type. In due course, this came to be the way I made my living. Typing: Best class I ever took.
Here’s the thing, Gabriela: You will never need to know algebra. I have never once used it and never once even rued that I could not use it. You will never need to know — never mind want to know — how many boys it will take to mow a lawn if one of them quits halfway and two more show up later — or something like that.
Now, I detected some tongue-in-cheek, self-deprecating humor in Cohen’s article, but some of my favorite bloggers were quite upset by it. PZ Myers of Pharyngula writes,
Because Richard Cohen is ignorant of elementary mathematics, he can smugly tell a young lady to throw away any chance being a scientist, a technician, a teacher, an accountant; any possibility of contributing to science and technology, of even being able to grasp what she’s doing beyond pushing buttons. It’s Richard Cohen condescendingly telling someone, “You’re as stupid as I am; give up.” And everything he said is completely wrong.
I’m not being cheeky. I’m genuinely wondering. Because he seems to have struggled so mightily with basic math that it suggests a possible undiagnosed learning disability, which isn’t a funny thing. It also sounds like the girl in his linked column to whom he’s directing the bad advice that math doesn’t matter–a girl who failed “algebra six times in six semesters, trying it a seventh time and finally just despairing over ever getting it” and subsequently dropping out of school–may well have an undiagnosed learning disability, too. And that makes his column not just ridiculous or ill-advised, but tragic.
The ever-gentlemanly Kevin Drum is a little kinder:
Cohen’s serious point isn’t really whether algebra is useful or not, it’s whether it should be required to graduate from high school. That is, if you find yourself completely unable to fathom algebra, should you be condemned to spend the rest of your life as a high school dropout? I don’t really have an opinion about this, but it’s a serious question.
On the other hand, Cohen says he can’t do percentages either, and if that’s the case then maybe he should go back to high school.
Sorry, I’m with Richard. Yes, being math-impaired is a learning disability, and I have it. I recognized this years ago, and through all these years I have managed to work around it quite nicely, especially with the help of calculators and Microsoft Excel. I can even calculate percentages with Excel (something I really did have to do in my professional life), although not with a calculator. I’m not sure why that’s true, but it is. Before Excel, I had to ask people to do percentages for me.
I don’t believe I was born math-impaired. I blame the way math was taught in elementary school back in my day. We cave children would sit scratching page after page of the same rote math problem on our stone tablets, and there … is … nothing … more … mind … numbingly … boring than that. Working the problems was easy, but I would have rather watched paint dry than do it. By the time I was in third grade I was falling behind, and by fifth grade or so I had full-blown math phobia, and from then on I was hopeless.
On my PSATs I was in the 90-something percentiles in everything but math; in math I came in at 3rd percentile. Yes, that’s third, not thirty. I am not making this up. (As I remember I left most of the test blank because I was utterly baffled by it, but one of the few questions I did answer I actually got right. This must have saved me from first percentile.) In college I chose to major in journalism mostly because there wasn’t a math requirement.
I do consider it a disability, but if you’ve got to have a disability it’s a relatively benign one to have. I think that was Cohen’s point. He’s not opposed to math education. Nor am I; I am humbled and grateful that so many people can do math and are scientists and doctors and accountants and whatever. Civilization isn’t possible without them. But if you don’t have legs you’re not going to be a dancer. If you don’t have eyes you’re not going to be a graphic artist. I was never going to be a scientist. That’s how life is. I accept it.
Back to Kevin’s question — “if you find yourself completely unable to fathom algebra, should you be condemned to spend the rest of your life as a high school dropout?” My answer is emphatically no. But the real issue, IMO, is math education, and whether math is still being mis-taught. The Los Angeles Times story by Duke Helfand to which Cohen refers says that hundreds of Los Angeles high school students are dropping out without diplomas because of the algebra requirement. “The school district could have seen this coming if officials had looked at the huge numbers of high school students failing basic math,” writes Helfand. Teachers complain that they spend much of the class time reviewing math concepts students should have mastered in fourth grade. And 44 percent of Los Angeles high school students flunk algebra the first time they take it.
It is absolutely pointless to try to teach algebra to teenagers if they’ve had math phobias festering, untreated, since grade school. Fuhgeddaboutit. But in all these years have educators actually come to terms with math phobias, how they form, and how to treat them before it’s too late? Not that I’ve seen.
So instead of getting irritated with algebra invalids like Richard, Gabriela and me, go yell at educators. Dyscalculiaics are made, not born. Usually.
I went back to school a few years ago and I was required to take an algebra class. I asked the instructor to explain how algebra was going to help me and she gave me the same answer that I got when I took algebra in high school which is basically “you never know when you’ll need algebra but you’ll be glad you know when you need it.” I told her that worked the first time I heard it but that it had been 25 years since I last took an algebra class and had never needed it since then. I figure that the answer she gave me could apply to many things. Flying an airplane, heart surgery, tuning a banjo, making chili – you’ll never know when you are going to need it but when you do you’ll be glad you know how to do it.
I did pass high school algebra, but I think high-school algebra in my day is comparable to middle-school level algebra today. As I recall I memorized formulae so I could pass tests and then promptly forgot them. Anything I learned in high school algebra evaporated from my head years ago. The LA Times article mentioned “polynomials” and “slope intercepts.” I have no idea what those are.
People are missing the point here. We should not be dumbing-down graduation requirements. We should be fixing the fundamental problems that are occurring during the truly formative years of mathematical education. If algebra teachers are spending too much time on concepts the students should have learned in fourth grade, we need to fix the fourth grade curriculum to make sure students are receiving the appropriate exposure to these topics.
I really disliked English classes in high school. Why should I have been forced to read the classic literature? Was reading William Faulkner going to help me in my day-to-day life post graduation? Of course not. Why don’t we just put the kibosh on the English requirement? Do you see the absurdity?
Do you see the absurdity?
I do see the absurdity, and I have also been acquainted with Ph.D. scientists who had no more appreciation for Faulkner than I have for algebra. Yet nobody yells at them for not learning Faulkner.
I am not opposed to teaching kids algebra. I regret I can’t do math. (I would have rather been good at math than not, but it wasn’t something I had a choice about. My brain is what it is.) I’m saying that there is a real learning disability that educators just don’t deal with. Had I been a dyslexic I would have gotten special help, for example. As I’m beyond hope, I try to have a sense of humor about it. And, as I said, I’ve learned to compensate. But I’m not saying this is how everybody should be.
I’m on the fence on this one. I agree that the math-impaired are made, not born, and that poor teaching is usually the cause. (My 11th grade algebra instructor was my school’s wrestling coach, an awful, uninspired teacher who really didn’t understand the subject himself; I was further distracted by having an impossibly gorgeous, shy boy sitting across the aisle from me.) But Cohen is wrong, at least in that Gabriela will never need algebra. One day she very well could run a temp agency, where she assigns a boy to mow a lawn who walks out halfway through….
Part of teaching is the “meta” aspect, that is, stepping outside the subject itself and inspiring students to understand how that subject fits in the big picture, and has practical applications in the real world. The stuff you weren’t good at in high school might come back to bite you later on. I was good at diagramming sentences in junior high, and today I’m a writer who on better days still knows an adverb from a gerund. Useful? Probably not. But to save, spend, plan, measure and build, I’ve had to re-teach myself to solve for “x”. Failing that, I’ll find someone who already knows math, but in any case I’d recognize the usefulness of that knowledge.
A lot of the problem with algebra is the teachers that teach it. I just made it through that class and then at the age of 53 I had to go back to school because of DOWNSIZING remember that word. Any way my brother in law who is a math teacher sat down with me and in one day I was able to do basic algebra. I also made it through life with out the subject but was happy to see it is not near as hard as I once thought.
Toni, I love your story! Also, reading some of maha’s replies to comments above, I see issues raised here regarding high school curricula in general. Do we still need to teach Shakespeare? Physics? Spanish or French? I firmly believe we do, at a basic introductory level. How do we know what we’re good at, what we love, if we’re never introduced to it? But as for requirements to graduate– lord, I don’t know. Janie not knowing who Mercutio is, or how to solve for “x,” shouldn’t keep her from a high school diploma. But deep down I think that’s an education designed to ensure that Janie will be a fast-food worker most of her life.
But Cohen is wrong, at least in that Gabriela will never need algebra.
I took high school algebra, I believe, in 1968. The last time I was made to work an algebra problem was in 1972, in a typography class at the University of Missouri. Somehow, I’ve managed to avoid algebra since then. I admit that avoiding algebra has limited my career options, but like I said, if you don’t have legs you can’t dance, either. And I am certain that algebra must be extremely useful, but if you can’t do it, you can’t do it.
And I think if a substantial number of Los Angeles students are failing to get diplomas only because they can’t pass algebra, then somebody needs to take a hard look at those algebra classes.
A previous commenter said something about “dumbing down” education. Seems to me math education got “smarteded up” a lot since I was in school. My children were taught math concepts at a much accelerated pace than I had to learn them. They were working problems in 4th grade that I wasn’t exposed to until 8th grade.
Perhaps the Los Angeles algebra requirements are unrealistically high, and students might choose a more rudimentary class that just teaches very basic algebra so that the kids know what it is and how it’s supposed to work. Then if they need to know more later in life it wouldn’t be too frightening to learn more.
maha, I have a sneaking suspicion you’ve used forms of algebra and didn’t know it. It’s not always gibberish in parentheses, involving x, y and z. As an adult I figured out that algebra is nothing more than the ability to reverse-engineer an unknown quantity using all the information that is known.
I think you’re right, though, that math education has gone all high-octane for the younger generations. But then, the little blighters have these phones they carry in their pockets that they can watch TV shows on. So I’m confused by their whole world, frankly.
Another aspect of this issue is the old macho beliefs left over from the 50s that Americans have to be better scientists than the pesky foreigners or else we’ll get blown up.
What this belief always leaves out is that almost nobody is capable of being a great scientist, or even a mediocre one. Gifted people tend to find their gifts, whether they are taught or not.
I truly believe that proficiency in mathematics is a skill you’re born with; like other skills, you can teach and learn to a certain degree, but no matter how many art classes I take, I’m still a lousy artist. And I believe the demarcation line is algebra.
I’d like to see every American kid exposed to algebra, as well as to Shakespeare and biology and history. But I honestly don’t see any teaching programs out there today to make me optimistic that every American kid can LEARN algebra.
I liked math really well. All the tests we took every year, I got a 96 in math and 94 in English and 90-94 in all other subjects. My school counselor would look at the scores and tell me I should be an English teacher. However, I was in school when sexism was rampant. In the 8th grade, I breezed through my general math class. I wanted to take algebra in the 9th grade; but was told I was not smart enough. So, I took another year of general math. Then, I was able to take algebra in the 10th grade. I never had the teacher scheduled because for some reason we had student teachers for both semesters. I liked algebra because I like mysteries and I always wanted to figure out what “x” was. At the beginning, it was difficult and I asked my older brother who had breezed through algebra for some help. The help he gave me was that I would never have a problem in my homework without a sample on how to do it somewhere in the chapter. It was really the best tip I ever got. I had an A on every bit of homework and A’d all my tests. However, I received a B for the class. I asked the teacher, who had not taught the course why I didn’t get an A. His answer was that I had been too smart for the class. I should have taken it last year. I told him how I tried; but had been told I wasn’t smart enough to take in the 9th grade. The teacher added that if they had given me an A, they would have had to flunk the rest of the class because I was so far and above the other students. Wonderful.
The next year, I took geometry and found myself in a class with all underclassmen because everyone had been able to take algebra in the 9th grade. I was very angry at the system. I didn’t do my homework except to memorize the theorums. Thus, I A’d all my tests. My teacher told me he hated students who didn’t do their homework; but, he couldn’t flunk me because I had A’d my tests thus showed I knew the material. He gave me a D. I was actually proud of that D. I was supposed to go on to calculus; but decided not to because I didn’t want to spend another math class with underclassmen.
Today, don’t ask me to do any algebra. Not sure if I could. It was my first lesson in the fact that if you love something and work your tail end off to achieve; and it gets you nothing. It impacted my whole life.
I had a teacher in business school who told me that she felt all learning depended on when children were ready to learn. If you push a kid who isn’t ready to learn, then the kid will probably grow to hate it. If you won’t let a kid learn when they are ready, you may lose that child.
I was not interested in history; but, I had a teacher who was so enthusiastic about it, I discovered it was more interesting than I originally thought. The same thing happened for social studies and civics. The teachers were so passionate about the subject, they dragged most of us kids into their passion.
I still like mysteries and read many of them. They are my preference for movies and TV. However, I believe that I don’t often have to do any algabraic problem to solve the mysteries I read and watch. Oh, and the tip my brother gave me about geometry is that I wouldn’t be able to play pool if I didn’t learn it.
I figured out that algebra is nothing more than the ability to reverse-engineer an unknown quantity using all the information that is known.
In past jobs I used to actually enjoy doing things like justifying actual invoiced costs against budgets using a spreadsheet, and putting in formulae so that if the number in cell 24H changed, the result in other cells changed with it. That was kind of fun, and maybe that was something like algebra. But I saw it as an exercise in pure logic rather than math.
I always thought I was incapable of doing math well and barely squeeked thru grade and high school classes with low Cs and Ds (while being at the top of my class in all other subjects). I too had a mild phobia about any math and dreaded it from the get go. Then my first year of college I was required to take a basic algebra class and had the most remarkable teacher. For some reason he was able to demonstarte and explain the concepts in a way that was instantly made simple and clear to me and I breezed thru the course with straight As. To this day I have no idea why he could do this and no other teacher I ever had could make it understandable, but he did. If that many kids are failing algebra in LA then I thnk they should seriously take a look at the entire math program from grade school on up. Math is nothing more than a language – if you can speak a language you can do math. But like any other language, if you don’t have a good teacher who can make it clear you’ll never get it.
If that many kids are failing algebra in LA then I thnk they should seriously take a look at the entire math program from grade school on up.
That’s what I’m sayin’.
Well, you can always find work at McDonald’s or Burger King. The cash registers there don’t have numbers, just pictures of whoppers, mcnuggets, etc. Of course, career advancement is limited, but it does spare one from thinking. As far as learning a foreign language, just talk louder or flash a few euros, but lacking champignon in your vocabulary means you’ll have a lot of trouble getting a mushroom omlette. The brain is like a muscle: the more you exercise it, the stronger it becomes.
Heh KS. If you are going to travel 300 miles on a freeway, how long will the trip take? I bet you can give me an answer, I also bet that you don’t have a @$@$ clue that your doing algebra to figure it out:
X = Y/Z
Y = 300 miles
Z = 60 miles/hour
X = 300/60
X = 20 minutes
Don’t give me the BS that people never use it. In reality they use it all the time, probably even the clueless nitwit that wrote the article. The difference between someone “good” at Algebra in schools and someone who thinks its useless is that the people that are good at it can do Y = miles = 300, while the people insisting its useless jsut don’t get the “Y =” part. They might have a harder time with, “How fast was Fred driving when it took him 20 minutes to drive 300 miles?”, but that is the point of the class, to try to teach people have to pick apart the question and find which ever answer you don’t have, be it the speed, the distance or the time it took. Even complete math dropouts can manage at least one of those, most can manage all three, even if the failed math.
The real question is, why couldn’t the teacher get this through to them, not, “Will I ever use this?” Everyone uses it, they just can’t translate from doing it in their heads, to properly describing it one paper, or taking what is on paper and doing it in their heads. The lie is that most people don’t use it. Like most such lies, its designed to make someone feel better about not doing well the class, while making them feel good about, “Not needing it in the first place.”
In any case, I have to agree with one poster on another blog. Why the hell is it reasonable to take the most technologically developed nation in the world and not only fail to meet the “new” requirements for us to understand it, but actually fail to even meet the basic education level that someone from the 18th century had? Does that make any sense at all?
If you are going to travel 300 miles on a freeway, how long will the trip take? I bet you can give me an answer, I also bet that you don’t have a @$@$ clue that your doing algebra to figure it out:
That’s just division.
Echoing comments #13-14, the LA school system has a reputation of being one of the most dysfunctional in the country. It wouldn’t surprise me to see kids failing algebra repeatedly because they were mistaught the basics early on. I live in LA and hear horror stories far worse than this. Requiring mastery of algebra for graduation and seeing tons of kids dropping out wouldn’t surprise me at all for this school system.
Others have made the point that knowing, or minimally being exposed to algebra – as well as many other subjects – can only help you in life.
I wasn’t a brilliant student in math, I slogged through algebra, trig, geometry and calculus, despite being fortunate to have a fantastic high school curriculum and teachers. I use this stuff a fair amount in my vocation (software engineer) – I still keep a thirty year old college text on analytic geometry by my side. Even though I’m not nuts about math, I see a tutoring opportunity here. Thanks for posting this article.
joanr16, I agree with your comments.
No maha, that’s basic algebra. Division is a part of it.
Ok, seriously, I’m sorry that many of you had problems with math, but seriously we are talking ALGEBRA. This isn’t calculus, much less differential equations or laplace transforms.
I guess I’m old fashioned, despite being in my 20’s, but I thought the point to school was to be “educated”, not to be “job training”. Basic algebra is understanding basic numbers, it’s how to think. Just like the annoying stuff in English teaches you how to communicate.
I will totally agree that our school systems suck horribly. But having the ADULTS agree that “you’ll never use it in life” is just awe-inspiringly pathetic.
10 = 2 * x
What does x equal? 5.
But, wait, that’s just division (10 divided by 2). No, Tito is right, that’s basic algebra, within which division is a necessary operation.
No maha, that’s basic algebra. Division is a part of it.
I realize that, but I could have worked that problem with what math I knew by fifth grade, if not sooner, without having taken an algebra class. So what we’re really saying is that kids need to know basic math and how to apply it. No argument from me there.
I didn’t have algebra until high school. I passed high school algebra so I know what it is, but our high school algebra of the 1960s was comparable to what kids today learn in junior high (or “middle school” here in the East). And even then I’d cry over the stuff every night because it was so damn convoluted.
And wasn’t Calculus a Roman Emperor? (Just kidding.) My daughter made an A in college calculus. I still don’t know what it is.
True fact: My high school algebra teacher was the basketball coach, whose name was Bill Bradley, and he was kin to THE Bill Bradley. A cousin or something. Nice fella. Made no sense at all, though.
Actually, Kagehi is correct. The driving problem posed would be typical of one that is in my 12-year old’s pre-Algebra textbook. No, it’s not as difficult as solving a set of binomial equations, but it’s still Algebra. Yes, the operation required is division, but that doesn’t solely define the type of problem. I also agree with Kagehi and previous posters that if we do not require Algebra, what else should we drop from the standard? Certainly not everyone is going to be a doctor or a solid-state physicist, but I think society is better off if everyone understand what function their liver serves, or can grasp basic concepts of physical science such as gravity, inertia, etc. I would love to see more literature covered in school, but frankly I’m too worried that kids (and adults) don’t even learn proper grammar. I find people’s misuse of English increasingly distracting, particularly in the print media and in blogs. It is amazing to me that people don’t understand the difference between the possessive “its” and the contraction “it’s” (short for “it is”).
Side note: caught you on C-SPAN last week, Maha; you were great!
Speaking as a professional math instructor, I agree that dyscalculia is usually made, not born; that almost anyone can learn algebra given good instruction and relevant motivation. By ‘motivation’ I do not mean grades – I hate the grading process, it interferes with learning – but simple real-world uses of basic math. Math, like all technologies, tends to be opaque until you have a need for it; then it explains itself.
In the case of algebra, the thing to understand is that it’s not about numbers but operations. _Which_ operations do you apply? Do you divide A by B, or B by A? Or multiply? Or add? These are not trivial problems, as my students’ homeworks attest; if you go by guess and intuition then you will mess up; the whole point of algebra is to solve these problems systematically.
I love calculators, I encourage all my students to get one, but I also tell them that “it’s not the silicon” – pointing to my calculator – “it’s the carbon” – pointing to my head. The buttons are great, but which one do you push?
Maha, you called reverse-engineering a spreadsheet quantity an exercise in pure logic rather than math; but you see, ultimately math _is_ pure logic. It’s _supposed_ to be simple, that’s the whole point. Maha, you are an algebraist without knowing it!
Do not fool yourself that you don’t need algebra. You most definitely do, and fairly advanced algebra at that, to not get eaten alive in the money world. Exponentials, logarithms; know these intimately or be some banker’s lunch. When I was shopping for a home mortgage loan, I re-derived the amortization formula, input it into my calculator, and brought the machine with me to every interview. It was my sword and my shield.
The East Asians are much more in a math-for-the-people mode than are we; which to my mind plainly foretells how the 21st century will turn out.
It all comes down to finding teachers who know how to teach! The same thing applies to foreign language and even computer teachers. Some have a moderate ability to impart the knowlege to a some, some have a gift of making it clear to almost everyone. It requires imagination -which is in very short supply. Just look at what teacher education classes require. Talk about a deadening subject.
If you can imagine and understand why someone isn’t getting it, you can explain it more clearly. (Assuming you, the teacher, really understand it.) Add enthusiasm for your subject and there you have it.
A good teacher also has empathy for his/her student and no weak ego that thrives on being smarter than thou.
toxmom — thank you. I think what I’m saying is that some of us learn math concepts in different ways than from algebra class. I hated math with a blazing passion from first grade on. Originally I hated it because it bored me out of my socks but eventually because the stuff they taught us on the blackboard always seemed like the most absurdly convoluted way to come up with information.
It’s like teaching reading. Some kids might benefit from learning phonics. Others probably don’t. I wasn’t taught phonics and my reading speed and comprehension levels always were way ahead of my grade level. I suspect if I’d been taught by the phonics method I would have been bored out of my socks by reading, too, and would today be illiterate. Fortunately it was something I caught on to without formal education getting in the way.
But math, oh please, math was so absolutely horrible. If I really need to know something involving numbers I can apply logic and figure out the steps I need to come up with the answers. I could do that before I took algebra. Algebra was just a nuisance. As I said above I could memorize formula and get by on tests but most of the time I had no idea what the teacher was talking about, and it’s all evaporated out of my head now. If I had to pass high school algebra now I doubt that I could. Yet as I learned years later I can calculate quite complicated math problems if I can put them on an Excel spreadsheet. It helps me visualize it all, I guess.
I really think that the way math is taught fails a lot of us.
Well, to be fair the subject of Cohen’s article wasn’t math impaired as Cohen implies but rather attendence impaired as the LA Times article points out.
“If you are going to travel 300 miles on a freeway, how long will the trip take? I bet you can give me an answer, I also bet that you don’t have a @$@$ clue that your doing algebra to figure it out:
X = Y/Z
Y = 300 miles
Z = 60 miles/hour
X = 300/60
X = 20 minutes”
You left out the 7 15 minute rest stops for the kids, an hour for lunch and 45 minutes to go back for whatever it was that my wife forgot and can’t live without for 72 hours. Not to mention the constrution in Atlanta and the reptile farm. But that’s OK, my algebra teacher wouldn’t have accepted 15 hours for an answer either. Look, oranges. Slow down, we need to stop there.
Davebo — if someone had forced me to take the same damnfool algebra class for a sixth time after I failed it five times, I’d probably skip most of the classes, too.
KS…The reptile farm is a rip off, save your money..don’t stop there.
Is the reptile farm x or y?
Maha, I don’t buy the 3% math number you cited. If your math talent was really that bad, you’d need help figuring out how many shoes to put on your feet.
One problem is the confusion between teaching mathematical concepts and reasoning and teaching mind-numbing equation solving that bore people to death. I believe we, as citizens in a technologically advanced society, need to be able to understand mathematical concepts. But just as we don’t teach literary concepts and humanities by making people sit and only correct the grammar in disconnected sentences, we shouldn’t be teaching abstract concepts of algebra, or statistical analysis, by making kids solve disconnected equations. We have a system that, while it should be teaching people thinking skills, is designed to do something else.
Instead of giving a generic diploma, give out a diploma that lists the student’s achievements and strengths. If a person can’t do algebra, that should be reflected on his/her diploma. But so should the fact that this person is tenacious and driven. I’ll find a place for workers like that anytime; fit them to their non-algebraic talents and you’ve got a winner.
I think we should emphasize the fundamentals while providing children the opportunity to explore their interests, which will often lead to their talents.
I don’t think public schools should offer programs that will cater to all the various human talents, but I think that public schools in cooperation with other parts of a community (athletic programs, public parks, local theater, local music groups, etc.) can offer every American the opportunity to develop their talents.
Still, the fundamentals have to addressed. People generally need to be able to read and to compose a coherent sentence. Physical fitness, walking, yoga, sports, health information, needs to be part of any good education. If you can’t count to a thousand, good luck with your monthly expenses.
I have mixed feelings about requiring algebra for
high school students.
The case against it is based on the fact that algebra will seldom
if never be used by most people . Those in the sciences and especially engineers however use it constantly. It ought to be
possible to devise an algebra course that teaches the concepts
rather than the boring word problems. However this was tried
with the “new math” where the abstractions of math were taught
and was a total failure. The basic problem was that the immature
mind is not ready to absorb abstractions. Also using an abstraction
to solve a specific problem requires thought and logic . Thought
is something most teenagers are not fond of. while their hormones are flooding their brain.
The case for algebra is that the education establishment worldwide
thinks that it is a necessary part of “higher”education. They think this way because they have always done it this way and because Asian students are great at algebra.There is nothing inrinsically difficult about algebra but its concepts are unusual.and abstract.
If algebra is to be successfully taught in high school it requires an excellent teacher. Since these are scarce it ought not to be taught until college. However since changing the way things are done now is unlikely no doubt more and more students will fail.algebra.
Lest this cynicism be deemed unfounded I’m a retired electrical
engineer who is very familiar with algebra,trig,calculus etc
Steve, the third percentile thing is absolutely true. I am not kidding. My mother just about passed out.
As I said, I didn’t even answer most of the questions. I answered about five of them, and one question I actually got right. I remember because it was a trick question that we worked in math class later. Oddly, I was the one who saw the trick, and the “math smart” kids didn’t.
I have no problem with logic. I am very good with analolgies, in fact. We took some test called the “Ohio Psychological” test that was all analogies, and I was in the 99th percentile. But the PSAT math section was just jibberish to me. It’s a learning disability, I tell you.
One problem is the confusion between teaching mathematical concepts and reasoning and teaching mind-numbing equation solving that bore people to death.
Amen.
I know the reptile farm is a ripoff but it was either that or Disney World. Too bad Weeki Wachi got all cleaned up & family friendly.
Although we all don’t have aptitudes for certain things and real capabilities for others, most basic stuff we could never grasp was probably the fault of the teacher or the text book. The year my son studied multiplication and division, the teacher never got to division and the school assigned the mothers the task of teaching division that summer. I could never understand the text book, so I ended up ignoring it and taught my son to do division the way I had learned some 25 years before. He grasped it immediately, but the school was furious with me because the teacher that fall could not figure out how he got the right answers. Then there was the English teacher a few years later who insisted that the same son who had written all of his papers in sixth grade on our Apple II Plus had to hand write them in seventh grade because she was convinced that the computer was writing the papers. Luckily, he also had some really wonderful teachers, still loves to learn, is an architect, and this semester, after having worked on the 9/11 memorial for two years straight, has taken a break and is teaching architecture at university. All of you who could not learn algebra probably had lousy teachers.
Well, you can always find work at McDonald’s or Burger King. The cash registers there don’t have numbers, just pictures of whoppers, mcnuggets, etc. Of course, career advancement is limited, but it does spare one from thinking.
In my last job I was a production manager of teacher editions and multimedia ancillaries to elementary education textbooks for McGraw Hill. Pays a bit better than McDonald’s. One of the last textbooks series I worked on was math, in fact. Heh. But now I just write.
People like you are part of the problem, maha.
Why do so many kids struggle with math?
I think the reason is simply that math is hard, and takes more struggle than other subjects… and it’s a very dry subject for a kid.
Is there a way to make arithmetic drills exciting? Not really, but they are an essential part of math education.
Are there some kids who just are not able to do math? Sure, but since we don’t know how many, let’s focus on what can be improved.
1) Admit math is hard, and involves a struggle, and help your child accept this fact. It’s important to learn to be able to apply yourself to things that are difficult.
2) I agree that better math teachers are needed, especially at lower levels. This takes more money, but beyond that, it requires an atmosphere of respect for math teachers. Do you think math teachers like it when parents introduce themselves with “Oh hi, you’re the math teacher. I hate math”. That is just plain rude.
And “Hey math teacher. I never needed math, it was just a waste” doesn’t help either.
Foreigners can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that intense math hatred is a mostly American phenomenon, an expression of the long-standing anti-intellectualism in this country, the mental lassitude that breeds supporters for fascists like Bush.
People like you are part of the problem, maha. … Foreigners can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that intense math hatred is a mostly American phenomenon, an expression of the long-standing anti-intellectualism in this country, the mental lassitude that breeds supporters for fascists like Bush.
And may I say that people like you are just plain stupid. I am among the least anti-intellectual people you ever had the privilege of addressing. I admire true intellectualism and take some pride in being intellectual myself. Being math impaired has nothing to do with being uninformed or illogical in other areas of one’s life. You, on the other hand, may be able to do math, but you don’t know logic.
So…it’s just fine for a man with a bully pulpit that allows him to speak to millions to say “don’t worry your pretty little head about learning something difficult” Something that will enable your to hold a better paying job or perhaps solve other problems in your life; mathematical thinking can be applied to many areas of life that is why physicists, like me, need to know how to do it. And it’s REALLY OK because the poster to this blog can’t “do” math either. Gosh…good thing the folks that invented transistors, computers, the internets, and all that useful stuff didn’t think the way folks here do. Yeah, teachers suck. What else is new?
Well I’d like to say the ignorant attitudes on display here are new but they’re not. I came up against the same fear, disdain and stupidity waaaaaaay back in geometry class when I was on of only two guys who could solve the blackboard problems in class. My friend and I went on to college. The rest of the folks who made fun of us, like some here would like to do I’m sure, well….they got jobs at the local gas stations pumping gas.
That was some time ago as you may imagine. So what are you folks gonna do when your grow up?
Advise the younger generation to watch TV?
Oh, yeah…Marky get’s it.
The rest of you?
Not so much.
A. Citizen, as with apes and philosophy, you may have read all the comments but clearly you did not understand them.
A. Citizen — I went on to college, too. And I excelled in many things. Just not in math. Since you misunderstood what I wrote, may I suggest remedial reading classes? You seem to have a problem with language skills.
Oh, for Pete’s Sake. Some people have a natural gift or knack for math, some for art, some for language. But to be a well rounded citizen, we have to have some understanding of all of it. I’ve seen classrooms where the teacher gets nowhere with most of the students (which sets them back for years) and some classrooms where students who had no interest suddenly become crazy for it. (I was a teacher’s aid once) It’s all in the teaching, I tell you. (Comment #25).
You know, although I think Richard Cohen is a contemptible twit, I don’t think Gabriela is, necessarily (I don’t know much about her, of course, but being poor in math does not make someone a bad person, as you know). I don’t think everyone should be a math whiz, nor that we should punish people who don’t do derivatives. But I do think there are a whole bunch of skills that we are obligated to expose schoolkids to, because breadth is important. I’m at a liberal arts college, so of course I think that.
This isn’t about punishing kids who are bad at algebra or hate Faulkner, but about teaching everyone these core pieces of the culture that include math and literature. It’s what education is all about. What Cohen was doing was going beyond just saying he had no inclination for algebra to belittling an important piece of our heritage — you know that even if you personally do not like or understand algebra, you are benefiting immensely from the work of all those other people who do. Cohen seems to think they are dispensable. While we shouldn’t condemn individuals who aren’t mathematical or artsy or verbal, philistines like Cohen who trash whole domains of human endeavor to make themselves feel better about their inadequacies deserve a good public thrashing on some obscure weblog, at least.
Well, if you are driving 300 miles like from from Philadelphia to Boston, or Los Angeles to Las Vegas, it’s not going to take you 20 minutes!!Going 60 miles per hour, its going to take you 5 hours, 300 divided by 60 is 5, not 20! OTOH, if you do traverse 300 miles in 20 minutes, you are NOT driving a car – because you are going 900 miles an hour. A bit of numbers sense here, people! And then you add on the potty stops…………
This isn’t about punishing kids who are bad at algebra or hate Faulkner, but about teaching everyone these core pieces of the culture that include math and literature. It’s what education is all about.
I agree with that. But I also think that if this poor girl had already flunked algebra five times, then something is fundamentally wrong. Maybe it’s her, or maybe it’s the school, or maybe it’s both. As a practical matter, everyone needs basic math, and everyone needs to learn to apply some basic formulae, but for some students it’s just torture to be pushed into math classes they can’t grasp. It just teaches them to expect failure.
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