A police video of George Zimmerman after he shot Trayvon Martin shows no apparent injuries.
Granted, it’s possible Zimmerman had some minor abrasions that can’t be seen clearly in this video, and if his head had really been slammed into pavement maybe he had a concussion, which also wouldn’t be apparent from the video.
And maybe the reason police didn’t photograph his “injuries” is that there was nothing to photograph. I still can’t believe even an incompetent police department wouldn’t have photographed Zimmerman’s injuries if he had any.
Some rightie bloggers are saying that the video doesn’t change anything, but to me it underscores the fact that we can’t trust any information coming out of the Sanford Police Department. Think Progress has a list of five unanswered questions in the case, and they all focus on police conduct.
Update: Some lame-brained idiot (or else a Breitbrat social media provocateur) has a twitter page calling for open season on George Zimmerman. As of this writing the page has all of 130 followers, which is not exactly a mass movement. But the Breitbrats want President Obama to apologize for it. Give me strength …
Update: Ta-Nehisi Coates explains why it will be really difficult to prosecute George Zimmerman under Florida law.
Don’t you just love the results of ALEC? They are the overriding issue here. How else would the issue-bankrupt NRA get such overreaching laws passed?
I hesitate to link this, because it’s very disturbing and will ruin your day, but “Talking Points Memo” has posted the 911 recording of a call that a neighbor made reporting someone screaming for help. It’s chilling to say the least.
If the voice heard in the background can be verified as Trayvon Martin’s, it would certainly make the claim of self defense difficult, if not impossible.
Are any of the gun rights advocates claiming that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he had the sense to carry a gun? That’s their usual response to events of this nature.
I think we can rule out the broken nose.. Broken nose = lots of blood.
Since he was supposed to be dressed differently during the confrontation, I am confused: Did they clean him up at some point? Is this, in fact, video from this particular incident? Weird.
I don’t know if it matters, but it is obvious that the video that ABC received is a “bootlegged” copy. In other words, it looks like someone within the SPD pointed their smartphone at the computer screen to record it and then sent it out (presumably, to eliminate internal traces).
It is interesting, and it is going to result in a loss of resolution and overall quality. In any case, I don’t know if it’s conclusive of anything.
Check out Mark Fiore’s video at DailyKos. It is aimed at the ALEC-inspired law concept, very specifically including this example.
If wise guys from the mob had met the smart alecs at ALEC, with money in hand, and asked them to craft a law with organized crime’s operational interests specifically in mind, then ALEC could not have done better than “stand your ground”.
And that is what I think in fact happened. The alternative theory is that ALEC is so incompetent that they wrote a pro-mob law without being paid for it.
I harbor similar theories about the NRA. So follow the money, if you dare.
goatherd,
“Are any of the gun rights advocates claiming that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he had the sense to carry a gun?”
No.
They’re not yet at the point of advocating arms for black teenagers. They’re scary enough unarmed.
But they may come to the point of marketing to them sometime soon, though – all the better to sell EVEN MORE more guns to white people scared of black teenagers.
“Look, if “THEY” weren’t “legally” armed before, and you were afraid of them – just think how much more afraid you should be now that “those people” are legally armed!”
‘This dog-whistle message has been brought to you by your friendly NRA!
Oh, and MORE donations please! – To keep those black hordes away from your gated white communities.’
I have more trouble than that getting out of a car when I *haven’t* been in a tussle with anyone and supposedly had my head pounded into the pavement enough for me to be in fear of my life or serious bodily injury. Zimmerman looks pretty intact and undamaged in that video.
I think there is a strange interpretation of the Florida law going around. The law states that the person standing their ground has to “reasonably believe” that the use of such force is necessary. Not “believe” but “reasonably believe”. Presumably whether or not Zimmerman’s belief that he needed to shoot Trayvon was reasonable or not is something for a jury to decide.
Obviously, I think there is plenty of evidence to show that, whether or not Zimmerman actually feared for his life or health, such a fear was NOT reasonable, given the circumstances, their relative sizes, and the fact that Trayvon was armed only with Skittles. So I don’t think Zimmerman’s use of force meets the definition of the law.
biggerbox,
All that may well be true, but as I mentioned in an earlier comment(s), it’s nowhere near certain that it will ever get to a jury because of the way the PD handled the shooting and the “investigation.”
Police incompetence is frequently used to throw cases out of court. And “incompetence” is a few levels above where the Sanford PD is at right now.
Swami/Lynne
I’ve seen lots of folks responding to this and asking about the lack of blood on his clothes. So..
It’s worth noting that the police report mentioned Zimmerman bleeding from nose and back of head, but nothing about blood on clothes. I would think that bloody clothes would have made it into the description if it was visible, but perhaps not (I’m not going to claim to be an expert on police procedure/protocol, no matter haw many episodes of L&O I’ve seen). Assuming he did bleed, blood on a red jacket wouldn’t show in that vid, and blood wouldn’t necessarily make it onto his shirt if the jacket was zipped when the altercation took place. (especially if GZ was beaten/bleeding while on his back, as the officer at the scene indicated).
Again, the video isn’t conclusive of anything, given the lack of audio and poor quality. Also, for whatever reason, the ABC “exclusive” graphic obscures GZ’s head for the majority of the vid, so the look that we do get doesn’t last for long.
At some point I think everyone needs to have some faith in the criminal justice system, and think for a bit before jumping to conclusions based on a fraction of the facts.
We must not be looking at the same video. You got quite a good look at his head in the video I posted. And yes, the video quality is poor, but it’s not that poor. If there were injuries consistent with what Zimmerman’s lawyer has been claiming, they would have been visible even in this video.
A few years ago I was a juror in a criminal drug possession trial. And in the course of the trial it became obvious that the police had fabricated most of the evidence. It was blatant. They claimed drugs had been locked in a cooler that physically was not lock-able the way the detectives claimed it had been. (The lock story was critical to the case, since the drugs were not actually found in the defendant’s apartment or possession. The charge that the drugs were the defendant’s hinged on his alleged possession of the key to the lock that could not actually have locked the cooler.) An evidence bag that was supposed to contain marijuana and roach clips collected from the defendant’s bedroom was stuffed with tissues and candy wrappers; no drugs, no roach clips. Etc. etc.
So, like it or not, police are not always honest. And it’s the conduct of the police that’s really the issue here, even more than what went on between Martin and Zimmerman. Go back to the five unanswered questions.
By all appearances it looks as if at least some part of the Sanford Police Department were not taking the shooting death of an African American teenager seriously, and that has to be answered for.
“At some point I think everyone needs to have some faith in the criminal justice system, and think for a bit before jumping to conclusions based on a fraction of the facts”
Right I mean its not like they left Travons body tagged in the morgue for 3 days tagged as a John Doe, or that the investigators recommendation of arrest was ignored, or the Chief had to step down, or that Zimmerman had called 911 forty five times previously, almost always for a black man in the neighborhood. I mean come on Travon was black, suspended from school, wearing a hoodie, had previously been photographed wearing gold caps on his teeth! Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot and kill him, what else could he do, let the boy walk freely through his neighborhood?
uncledad,
“Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot and kill him, what else could he do, let the boy walk freely through his neighborhood?”
Next, the NRA will be bringing this forward as the new, “Zimmerman Doctrine” – a strategy for combating “strangers” in certain areas, and a willingness to unilaterally pursue gated neighborhood’s interests.
“Next, the NRA will be bringing this forward as the new, “Zimmerman Doctrine†– a strategy for combating “strangers†in certain areas, and a willingness to unilaterally pursue gated neighborhood’s interests”
Exactly it sort of defeats the purpose of a gated community if your just gonna let colored folk walk through though them freely!
biggerbox – If Martin had stood his ground – the assumption as of now being that he ran away from Zimmerman – Martin, given the Florida law, would have been justified in shooting Zimmerman. That would have made for very interesting reading and analyzing.
And, this case may take on the importance of the Dreyfus case in 19th century France if it hangs on long enough and racism looms large in how it was handled from the beginning. (As I said before, when the law was before the Florida legislature, I really thought no even half-brained legislators would enact it.)
if GZ was beaten/bleeding while on his back, as the officer at the scene indicated
This supposed “officer at the scene” contradicts the neighborhood woman who in fact was the first person on the scene, and found Martin lying face-down on the ground, having been shot, with Zimmerman straddling the body. Zimmerman ignored her the first few times she called out to him, only telling her to call 911 when she refused to go away. Nobody saw Zimmerman on his back, at any time.
Zimmerman has had a month to prepare his version of events for the public, and so far everything that’s emerged via his attorneys has been debunked within hours by the first witnesses on the scene, and now video evidence.
blood on a red jacket wouldn’t show in that vid
Sure it would. It turns into a dark brown stain within minutes. And nosebleeds inevitably get on clothes, via gravity.
uncledad,
Ok, so you extend “The Zimmerman Doctrine” to include any colored folk that even turn or look in that direction.
Now, that would be truly preemptive!
“Hey, Marge, that Nigra over there, done looked at the gates, I’m going to go get him.”
OK, yea, the vid you posted was the AC CNN coverage, and in it the ABC graphic isn’t there. But I just watched it on a full screen, and I think that is actually worse than the vid ABC has posted up.
So, I have to disagree. Once you wipe the blood away from his face it’s going to be awfully tough to make out cuts and swelling on that vid.
(sigh) Of course if you take a YouTube video that is 500 pixels wide and blow it up to full screen, it’s going to be a blur. But just watch it with your eyes closed next time, and then you can see whatever you like.
Update: OK, I’ll try to be patient. The number of pixels in the YouTube videos that people embed are fixed to be optimum at whatever size fits the blog format, which in my case is no more than 500 pixels. If you make them larger you lose resolution, because it’s still 500 pixels stretched over a bigger area, giving you a lower pixels-per-inch count. If you watch the video above on YouTube it is slightly bigger, but for maximum resolution don’t blow it up.
Oh c’mon the snark’s not needed. I’m not saying that I’m seeing anything different than what you’re seeing. I’m just saying that you wouldn’t be able to tell from that crappy bootleg of a security video file.
But if you want to take it and run as evidence that GZ and the police were just making up the part about head injuries, that’s fine. For me, I’m guessing that the next leak will probably be some 10 megapixel image of the back of GZ’s head or some testimony from the EMT on the scene or something that makes this discussion look silly.
So as a netizen who normally supports your positions and as an objective observer, I’m here urging some caution. That’s all. Carry on.
I believe we are being properly cautious and allowing room for doubt about whatever happened between Martin and Zimmerman. The issue is not that; it is what the bleep the Sanford Police Department has been doing.
And I’m sorry I snarked, but I seriously do not believe that you blew up a 500-pixel-wide video to full screen and then complained about the resolution. If you look at the video without blowing it up, the resolution isn’t so bad that more than minor injuries would be obscured. As I said, he could have some abrasions, but that’s about it.
ChenZhen…Twice I’ve had my nose broken and in both cases the blood didnt trickle out..It bursts outs in a hemorrhage and sprays the entire frontal area with blood. Zimmerman didn’t have or get a broken nose because if he did it would show blood on the videos. no way around it…no matter how poorly the quality of the video.
A) I hope Z feels the meaning of his actions. Most people do, whether they or we know it or not. That is why I am not a “hang ’em high” type, and would rather a Z be let go than our system compromised;
B) I hope Z’s aspirations of a career in law enforcement do not come to fruition.
I also expect, if Z’s dad is someone important, the dad knows full well the limitations of his son, and was hoping against hope that this predictable circumstance did not occur. It appears that Z may be a special needs person. I do wonder why nothing official has come out about Z’s family status/situation (other than that his wife is certifiable, too)…
I do know I would hate to be in Z’s situation, whether self-created or not.
For all you spiritual warfare aficionados who like to track demons…The same demon who inhabited Zimmerman on the night he killed Trayvon is the same demon who dwells within Mean Jean Schmitt. Legion? I’m not sure, but he’s a permanant resident and loves to stand his ground.
When you blow up those youtube vids to full screen the resolution is the same, you’re just making those pixels larger. So, when we’re talking about cuts or blood stains that my only be 1-2 pixels big (if that) on a video like this, making it bigger makes them easier to see. All I was saying was if you do an apples/apples comparison with the CNN vs ABC on full screen, the original ABC seemed better off their site than whatever someone had uploaded from CNN to youtube.
(sigh) Bigger pixels means lower resolution, at least as I’m using the word. In grapic reproduction “resolution} is the number of “points per inch,” or PPI. If you enlarge an image you lower its PPI and thereby its resolution. The same thing works on screen images. The fewer pixels per inch, the lower the resolution, and the image becomes less clear. Most web images look good at 72 ppi, and if you go below that it gets blurry. If you take 500 pixel wide image that is sized to display at 72 ppi, and you enlarge it to fill the screen, it’s now displaying at much lower than 72 ppi, and you lose a lot of detail.
I recall reading news stories at the time that sounded to me like the law included instructions to state agencies about how certain things were to be interpreted. So, the prosecutor might be told that in X circumstances, they’re not to investigate or bring charges. I don’t know if this is
1) accurate – I’m not a lawyer, and I assume few journalists have legal training, so the stories could have been wrong, and
2) constitutional – it might violate the state-equivalent of separation of powers.
Nevertheless, I *do* remember reading the Stand Your Ground news stories, and thinking “it sounds to me like this just legalized murder with no witnesses.”
Some lame-brained idiot (or else a Breitbrat social media provocateur)
I tried logging on to that Twitter account with “killzimmerman” and various Breitbartish passwords “breitbart1” “war123,” “ab123,” etc., but no luck. Anyone have any guesses as to what a Breitbartnik would use as a password?
Steve,
Try “weareallbreitbartnow1-123,456,789′
I MISS YOU!
And, you’ve been “En Fuego” lately!!!
Anyone have any guesses as to what a Breitbartnik would use as a password?
Try veritas. Or andyluvslave.
“At some point I think everyone needs to have some faith in the criminal justice system”
The criminal justice system is DEEPLY flawed. Odds are, many (or most) Maha readers would be immediately rejected from serving on a capital case. Why? Because if you don’t believe in Capital Punishment, it’s an automatic exclusion. That’s just one example out of many of how screwed up the system has become over time.
Mediaite has the ABC video without the “Exclusive” graphic. It’s at the bottom of this article:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/daily-caller-sees-possible-head-injury-in-george-zimmerman-police-video/
The video is pretty clear. I don’t know why anyone would think it was “bootlegged.”
Someone who would love Stand Your Ground laws:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjWXHF5FprU
One thing I wonder about is a holster. If Z-man had the gun in a holster, it kinda came with him when he left his vehicle. If the gun was on the seat, Z-man DECIDED to take it. The questions if he decided to take the weapon, are –
1) Why did you think a skinny kid in a hoodie was a threat?
2) If you were sure he posed a threat, why did you leave the vehicle?
If the weapon was holstered when he left the vehicle, Z-man can claim he was attacked by a kamakazi kid armed with an Arizona Iced Tea and he was getting his ass kicked by a juvenile he outweighed by 100 lbs…. bot we get to the question posed by Maha. If Travon thought he was being attacked by an armed man intent on doing him serious bodily harm, wasn’t he entitled to fight back? If he thought his life was in danger?
The questions in pursuit of facts are pretty well all asked, thus far, unless we get more information that generates more questions. But the questions about ALEC are not being asked, and ALEC is where all this originates.
Sorry, OT, my gravatar needed adjusting.
Well aint this some bull shit.Hell twice I have had my nose broken and I will be damned if I can figure it out – how is it this joker has a clean shirt and a jacket that is free of any dark brown stains and BOTH times I broke my nose it looked like someone gutted a deer in the room? Seriously, the room, my clothes and the car I left in were just destroyed..and the second time I left a trail for a block.I have got to have a tee shirt that resists stains like that..the NFL and MJB should know about this..because his clothing is amazing!Were they made out of kotex with the invisacore lining?
Also I took a gash to the back of my head with a full head of long hair as a kid skate- boarding..not enough to require stitches but it clearly showed right thru my dark hair. It was ugly as hell for about 6 weeks. You do not check a curb or sidewalk and NOT get a bruise.And thats just falling off a skate board..They contend his head was BASHED..which would mean a big ass bruise on his scalp.You know a black and blue spot, followed by lots of really other real ugly colors?Am I the only one who has played the “what color will it be today?” game?
Then there is the question I have about why the hell I and everyone else I have ever known who has broken their nose gets black eyes and the red where the white parts of the eyes are suppose to be and this guy didnt? How does that work? Are Florida people special or something?Do we break noses better in the north?And the nose isnt even bent or swollen! Holy crap mine got so big I thought it might explode before the bleeding stopped..Florida must have some REALLY special health care to fix a broken nose so you can’t even tell that fast!..It sure is strange.I don’t have extra thin blood, I don’t drink..I don’t bruise easy..I just can’t for the life of me figure out how there is no sign what so ever and everyone else I have ever seen looks so much different with the same injuries.
Then there is the pain IF you can stop the blood. Ok I am no wussy. I have been stabbed(trying to stop a suicide) , doused with lighter fluid and set on fire, had my back broke in three places by a book reading driver while on the motorcycle(also my hip dislocated THRU my butt cheek) had ribs broke, broke a few fingers and toes..so I am no light weight but the broken nose pain..OMG..it makes your eyes water for days. You have no idea all you do that requires your stupid nose, but bending down,sleeping,even putting on socks HURTS..This tape is less than a hour after nose was broken? Have you ever seen a nose 35 minutes after it was broken?There aint enough grain in the world to hide what that looks like.
So this man has done himself a grave injustice if he has overstated his injuries.
Is there anything written in this law that states a family cannot sue for wrongful death the way OJ was sued? It will never never bring their son back, I know but it may be the only justice they can hope for.I can’t stop thinking about their pain.Too bad it wasn’t considered before he was shot.
I am probably EPU’d but, in the 911 call from the neighbor, someone is screaming “Help” clearly, repeatedly and fearfully. It seems unlikely that an armed man who was no stranger to physical confrontation would be that much in fear of his life confronting a much smaller, unarmed man. So, almost certainly, the voice screaming for help was Trayvon’s. It also seems extremely unlikely that the aggressor would be the one screaming for help.
If analysis can confirm the voice as Trayvon’s I think it would be very damaging to the self defense argument. I am not claiming to be a legal expert, but if I were on the jury, this would weigh heavily toward me finding Zimmerman guilty.