An Aussie living in New York City writes about the Islamic center controversy for the Sydney Morning Herald. His basic point is that most of the hysteria is coming from outside New York City, which is true.
Oddly — but understandably — New York is not the nucleus of American rage over the mosque. The shrillest voices of opposition are far off. And the consequences are enforced in small American towns and cities where there are not the experiences of living tightly alongside the world’s races and creeds and nor the louder voices of tolerance. …
…Yet in New York, which lived through the epic destruction and terror of that day in September 2001 and has tens of thousands scarred by the losses of loved ones and colleagues, one senses the mosque would be allowed to rise without the rancour felt outside the city. Indeed it is possible to envisage that a thriving mosque in the shadow of the tragedy will speak more eloquently of memory, sorrow and forgiveness than a museum that looks to the past and a memorial that is still.
September 11 is different for New Yorkers. It was experienced differently; it is remembered differently. It’s hard to explain how it’s different, but it is.
A lot of righties are pointing to a diary at Daily Kos as an example of leftie obliviousness, and I have to say I was a bit put out with it also. Something the Dog Said wrote,
Given that they are such a small minority in this nation, it is odd that so many of our fellow citizens see them as such a threat. Yes, the 9/11 attacks were horrific, but they were more about optics than actual harm. The economy was already taking a hit before the Twin Towers fell. The reaction of the nation to seeing two major buildings in New York fall on T.V. has boosted the attack out of proportion. While the loss of even a single life is to be condemned and the devastation these deaths caused the families of those killed, more than this number of teens are killed every year incar crashes. These are also tragic losses but we do not make the kind of high profile issue of it that the 9/11 attacks are.
There was genuine massive and deep trauma suffered by people in New York City. It may have been about “optics” for those watching on television, but for some of us it was a real-world experience, and there was actual harm. To say that 9/11 “more about optics than actual harm” is a colossally stupid and insensitive thing to say.
That said, I appreciate the point that I think What the Dog Said was trying to make. The threat from jihadists is indeed blown way out of proportion, in that all the jihadists on the planet put together could not pose an existential threat to the United States. The only way they could destroy the nation is if they frighten us into destroying ourselves.
But we don’t need jihadists for that. We’ve got wingnuts.
Hmm, had no idea you are a New Yorker.
I’ve called myself a New Yorker ever since I spent the morning of September 11, 2001 in lower Manhattan. Of course, I’m also still a hillbilly. You can take the girl out of the hills, but you can’t take the hills out of the girl. 🙂
“Yes, NYC is a melting pot. But, how dare even they allow that Mosque!
How dare the other people in cities accept what ‘I,’ the righeous bigot, hate! Can’t they see that these ‘other’ people are subhumans, inferior to ‘us?’ I’ve got to do everything in ‘my’ power to show ‘them’ that ‘my’ hatred is right, and ‘their’ acceptance is wrong. So the problem isn’t ‘me’ hating ‘them.’ No, it’s that others of ‘my’ kind don’t hate ‘them,’ or hate ‘them’ as much as ‘I’ do in ‘my’ righteousness, so I’ve got to show ‘those’ (fill-in the blank)-lovers that ‘they’re’ wrong in trying to deal with these subhumans, and that ‘I’m’ right.”
Basically, it’s “God, I hate those people who don’t hate to the level that I do, almost as much as those I hate.”
And so the NYC Mosque becomes an easy focal point to concentrate hatred of all things Islam.
Human nature being what it is, I guess every melting pot has always had the flames of xenophibic hatred beneath it. And probably always will. The better angels of our nature have to make sure those flames don’t cause the pot to boil over. That road may lead to holocaust.
Yes, exactly. I think haters sincerely cannot imagine the possibility of not-hating.
There is a reason the jihadists choose NYC for the attacks, and I would argue it was not the sheer population, they choose NYC precisely because it is a melting pot, and that drives them fucking crazy. The jihadists and the flyover country dimwitted teabaggers have that in common, they hate coexistence. It goes against the rigid interpretation of whatever sky wizard religion they happed to be practicing, only they know who and what god is!
This may not be a popular view and just because I am a progressive, liberal does not lend any particular credence to it. I have been wrong many times before, as I’m sure I will be in the future.
I was in southern Illinois, at work, in a conference room trying to get reception on a TV so I and my co-workers could see what was happening. What happened was horrific. What must have been going thru the minds of the passengers? Did they have any awareness of what their fate would be?
The FDNY folks, a good number of them whose remains will never be found, trying to do their job.
This was a traumatic experience. I fully agree. But, let us keep it in perspective. If your neighbor does some damage to your lawn, shrubbery or garage, you do not get a shotgun and blow her or him away.
We need to keep a little perspective here. Just because one live in New York state, or New York city or Manhattan, does not qualify one to be an expert in the differences in the experience.
“To say that 9/11 “more about optics than actual harm†is a colossally stupid and insensitive thing to say.” (I haven’t figured out how to use “Allowed tags”). I will go along with the ‘insensitive’ part but not the ‘colossally stupid’ half of that statement. We have all suffered.
Though it may surprise the haters, the buildings that were struck were, in fact, the World Trade Center, and were not occupied solely by white Christian Americans. There were innocent Muslim victims there that day.
It wasn’t an attack on America, it was an attack in America on the entire idea of a worldwide system of peaceful cooperation and trade between all the countries, races and religions of humankind, the system that America has played a large part in creating and has largely benefited from.
Of course, you need a cortex higher than your lizard brain to understand it as other than Bad Strangers Comin’ To Get Me. And encouraging people to only use their lizard brains has been popular in our country for some time now.
uncledad wrote: There is a reason the jihadists choose NYC for the attacks, and I would argue it was not the sheer population, they choose NYC precisely because it is a melting pot, and that drives them fucking crazy.
biggerbox wrote: It wasn’t an attack on America, it was an attack in America on the entire idea of a worldwide system of peaceful cooperation and trade between all the countries, races and religions of humankind, the system that America has played a large part in creating and has largely benefited from.
I can only guess at what was in the jihadists’ minds, but IMO, they picked the locations they did for symbolic reasons – revolving around power: financial (New York) and political (Washington). They attacked the mightiest symbols of these aspects of our country, in sort of King of the Hill attempt to knock us off our perch. I think the reasons others have listed (above) are secondary. It’s about power.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
–Assembly of Pennsylvania to the Governor, 1755
–“Historical Review of Pennsylvania” published by Benjamin Franklin, 1759
John Stewart gave the address of the proposed building as 45 Park Place, formally the Burlington Coat factory. Maha posted a satellite image, which showed the site in relation to Ground Zero. Newsweek ran an article with a two page photo spread of the Twin Towers site. This is pure sensationalism. The address and the satellite image would have been much more informative and truthful. But, alas, wouldn’t have sold as many issues.
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The closest town to where I live is a flyspeck on the map, but 9/11 gave us a security checkpoint at our little courthouse. If I have business at the courthouse, I have to go through a metal detector and take off my shoes. Three policemen man the station. Ironically, I suppose it is justified now, but they are far more likely to snare an anti-government “patriot” than a jihadi.
I don’t think there is any way that I can fully appreciate how horrific and powerful the impact of 9/11 was and is to New Yorkers who lived through it. I was in my barn watering my horses when I heard the news. There isn’t a decent “target” within 50 miles of my house and I didn’t have to have the intense, sights, sounds and smells of the event imprint themselves on my memory. I didn’t have to wonder in the course of the months or years after, when or if the other shoe was going to drop. So, I try to honor thse who endured it by realizing how far short my imagination falls in trying to comprehend their experience.
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I lived 10 years in the city, leaving in 1974, and still consider myself a New Yorker. I have never been so proud of my city as in the aftermath of 9/11 when everybody pulled together. The war on terror was truly won by the people of New York City by the time night fell on 9/11/2001.
One of my kids was working downtown that day: I’ve never been so scared in my life. One of his friends nearly got pulped on the street by landing gear from the second plane. My brother-in-law got hit by flying debris and was in a coma for a couple of weeks. We got off lucky. I have never blamed this on Islam as a whole: I know too many good muslims. They happen to be more ‘christian’ in their good works than many self-professed ‘Christians’. Some exceptions in both categories, to be sure. Why can’t we just get along, dammit!
When W made his remarks against demonizing American muslims, I thought maybe I was wrong and that he would be a decent leader. It was the high point of his administration; all downhill from there.