Via Atrios — President Bush actually said this in Vietnam.
The president said there was much to be learned from the divisive Vietnam War _ the longest conflict in U.S. history _ as his administration contemplates new strategies for the increasingly difficult war in Iraq, now in its fourth year. But his critics see parallels with Vietnam _ a determined insurgency and a death toll that has drained public support _ that spell danger for dragging out U.S. involvement in Iraq.
“It’s just going to take a long period of time for the ideology that is hopeful _ and that is an ideology of freedom _ to overcome an ideology of hate,” Bush said after having lunch at his lakeside hotel with Australian Prime Minister John Howard, one of America’s strongest allies in Iraq, Vietnam and other conflicts.
“We’ll succeed,” Bush added, “unless we quit.”
As the old punch line goes — who you callin’ “we,” kemo sabe?
Other interesting things wingnuts have said recently:
Glenn G. says Pam “Boobie” Atlas “called for the State Department to be bombed and for American diplomats to be murdered.” (Hat tip Avedon.)
Yeah, that ol’ ideology of freedom trumps the ideology of hate every time, don’t it, Pam?
Via Matt Yglesias, Charles Krauthammer explains what went wrong in Iraq.
I have my own theories. In retrospect, I think we made several serious mistakes — not shooting looters, not installing an Iraqi exile government right away, and not taking out Moqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army in its infancy in 2004 — that greatly compromised the occupation. Nonetheless, the root problem lies with Iraqis and their political culture.
That last quote might also be filed under “shit we should have noticed before we stepped in it.”
And Dick “the Other Dick” Morris called Jack Murtha an “ultra liberal”; see video at Crooks & Liars.
Update: If I were Glenn Beck’s boss, he’d be out of a job now. This is reprehensible.
The root problem was always that we didn’t go in with enough troops. You can’t prevent the violence if you don’t have enough men to protect the area.
Remember that the U.S. took out most of the Republican Guard, scores of military personnel, and any heavy armament before they put any troops on the ground. Those people had to be replaced by allied forces to keep order. They weren’t.
http://www.worldpress.org/print_article.cfm?article_id=2682&dont=yes
I wonder if Mr. Bush will pop in and visit Laos while he’s in the neighborhood…Amazing what we don’t know in the land of the free.
Krauthammer explaining what went wrong and how to fix it is like having a blind man draw your portrait.
The root problem is not too few troops, the problem is the war cannot be won in any real sense .You can’t bomb people happy.
Impressed the hell out of them, he did. And, the world too.
Impressed the hell out of them, he did.
I guess everybody needs a good laugh now and then. I hope they laughed, anyway.
What can I say about george.Crackheads have a greater ability to reason than he has…..I have a suggestion for george…Perhaps his daughters should enlist NOW so that they can join the 20,000 additional troops bush wants to send.(I would suggest cheneys daughter go too but I know how righties feel about gays in the military…They would rather let the whole country go then have it saved by a bunch of gay people.)
And speaking for stupid we move on to the ding bat who stuck her boobs on bolton that is now calling for the bombing of the state dept…….I have a question.Why has homeland security not picked that CRAZY bitch up?She sounds like bin laden calling for offices to be blown up, shit, with her around who needs the terrorists?I bet no rightie bloggers are up in arms over her comments but imagine if anyone on the left had said it?We would be in gitmo by now.I don’t take kindly to people making those kind of threats to MY government…could she be more anti -American?
And finally to glenn beck….This is the same SOB who on his radio show told his listeners that Micheal Schivo was only keeping his wife because she was worth money to him.He then proceeded to raise 1 million dollars from his listeners to “buy” Ms. Schivo from her husband.When he refused to “sell” her to glenn beck, I wonder did glenn return all the money he raised?????
What kind of person tries to “buy” another human from her husband?Then gets angry when the husband won’t sell?Rather than say “Oops I was wrong about Micheal schivo just wanting money” he told his listeners Micheal schivo was just a cold blooded killer who found a way to get courts to support his desire to kill………this glenn beck fellow is the lowest form of scum we have on this earth…since he lacks any shame of his own I find myself being ashamed FOR him and for his E.D. followers.
I have a use for glenn beck and the folks at CNN…but I doubt they would lay still on my bird cage floors.
RE: Glen Beck:
“BECK: OK. No offense, and I know Muslims. I like Muslims. I’ve been to mosques.”
Mr. Beck, and … um, I afraid I have to ask you this … and I have to tell you, I’m nervous about this, because what I feel like saying is, given that you “know Muslims”, and have been known to visit mosques … can you prove to me you are not working with our enemies? Did you not get terror training at those mosques? All due respect …
If Glenn Beck was a body part.. what part do you think he’d be?
For “Political Critic’: The root problem was that we went into Iraq for reasons of greed and hubris. The ‘war’ mainly served the American military/industrial/oil companies’ greed and neo-con hubris all of which happily tapped into the Shrub’s egomania.
There is something about our supposedly inept, but heavy-handed occupation of Iraq territory that is eerily similar to Israel’s occupation of its neighbors’ territories. In each instance, the mask that serves as cover for aggressing upon weaker states is ‘fighting terrorism’ or ‘protecting the homeland’, while the outcome, sooner or later, is that the stronger side ends up with the coveted resources that once belonged to the other people.
For Israel, that prize is land and water. In the latest Lebanon conflict, Israel methodically destroyed the meager water infrastructure that served southern Lebanon villages [now thirsty without water tanked in by the UN], then Israel set up some new pipelines for itself from Lebanese rivers. It is even reported that Israel bulldozed, loaded and trucked richer Lebanese farm soils to Israel’s farms before vacating Lebanon, some weeks past.
In Iraq, we will ‘win the war’ only when we get control of Iraqi oil. The Iraqis are not stupid. They understand that we are occupying their country because we want their national resource, and to hell with what happens to the Iraqi people. If they fight among themselves, well, just another ‘reason’ to build permanent military bases and the biggest embassy in the world there, and just the perfect ‘reason’ we have to stay there.
I am afraid that in the highest circles of power, wars and atrocities and human anguish and societal turmoils are masterfully fomented [divide and conquer] then used as cover [can’t let the terrorists win, can’t negotiate with haters] for what is basically a matter of long-term thievery.
I would love to be wrong.
Bush said we’ll succeed, unless we quit.
Funny how over 50,000 U.S. soldiers bit the big one along with 2 million Vietnamese ( and countless Lao and Cambodians), and here we are thirty years later shaking hands and drawing up deals with the little browned skinned folks who didn’t have indoor plumbing but defeated the mightiest military in history. Funny we’re doing the same shit all over again, but this time in a desert.Insane………
Funny how Henry the K is back in the picture.
The war in Vietnam drove LBJ crazy.
Bush will have a shorter trip to his loony bin.
Google “Spratly Islands” for a little surprise.
“We’ll succeed unless we quit.”
Liken this to a football game. Let’s change the rules; the game does not end after an hour of play. It continues until a team gives up. Bush is demanding we ignore the score and the clock; accept a conflict that could span several administrations.
The comments by Pam Atlas are a reaction to the threat of a political solution; the departure of Rumsfield and other hawks has her in a panic. The other stuff is crap. Expect the wingnuts to go off the deep end as facts about the war, torture, and corruption come out.
Re Glen Beck. Freedom of Religion has consistently been interpreted to protect all Religions equally. To imply that an American who is also Moslem will comprimise his office and commit treason is an insult. An appropriate response is for EVERY member of Congress to close ranks and refuse to do an interview with Glenn until a public apology is made.
The root of the problem? We invaded a country. We started a war. No amount of blood can correct this, one of the greatest of modern times, error. No battle plan could correct for this error. No occupation scheme could justify it.
What has changed is that most Americans now see what some of us saw from the beginning: Bush is one screwed up puppy. All was phonied up — the Texas record, — all. Rumsfeld and Cheney are bona fide crackers. What will be different hence forth? Now and henceforth, every time Bush does his act the people will cringe and wish he would go away. And, they want the war to go away.
It is so important that Americans know how we got into this mess. Now, we need the proponents of this war under oath testifying day after day what they did and why they did it. Every last one of them, especially the Likudite Neocons.
Hey Glenn,
I know assholes, I’ve met assholes, I’ve even watched some asshole pundits on TV. How can you convince me that you’re not an asshole?